User Talk: Alektor89

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FWIW

Always remember to sign your posts ;) GoodDay (talk) 20:54, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

I've taken the 'German presidents' topic to WP:WikiProject Politics ↗, for a broader consensus. You can invite members of WP:GERMANY ↗ to participate, if you'd like. GoodDay (talk) 02:26, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

:{{tps}} Done on project talk - thank you for initiating this constructive discussion. GermanJoe (talk) 16:55, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Richard von Weizsäcker ↗

Hello Alektor89, thank you for your helpful edit summary - I have now added my opinion to the mentioned talkpage. While it's not a big deal (no need to revert), it is usually preferrable to keep an article in it's previous long-standing status while a discussion for changes is still ongoing. Just a quick note, in case you come across other discussed edits in the future.

I'd also like to invite you to join Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany ↗ if you are interested in such collaborations. Despite a recent decrease in project activity, it is still a good ressource for all Germany-related aspects on en-Wiki, and for the occasional advice and help from fellow editors with an interest in such content. Best regards. GermanJoe (talk) 16:47, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

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Re: Bundestag

Dear Alektor, I think you're confused about something. The function of the arch diagram is not to show how the members are seated, the function of the arch diagram is to show the spectrum position, otherwise there's no sense on having an actual arch. What you want is a diagram that shows the seating, for example the one in the Cortes Generales ↗ or the Croatian Parliament ↗, as it's currently is the Bundestag diagram would cause confusion. I suggest you to work in a diagram like those I mentioned above. Besides, be sure that sooner or later someone is going to overwrite on the one you're using or someone from the FDP is going to complain. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 13:24, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
::I doubt this. Or why do we use a different model for parliamtents in Westminster Systems, where parliament members of government and opposition sit in front of each other? Because the diagrams show - at least to some reasonable extent - the actual seating. But this is only secondary. More importantly, I think the question of "spectrum position" is very arbitrary: Why are the Greens more "centrist" than the SPD? (As a german citizen, I would question that) Is the FDP really more "centrist" than the CDU/CSU? (I think this really depends on the field of policy) Is the left-centre-right-scheme still up to date with early 21st century politics? One could discuss these questions at length without reaching a definite conclusion. These are very difficult questions and as Wikipedia-articles should not represent "theories" or arbitrary opinions, we shoud use a more evident principle: The actual seating in the BT, which is beyond reasonable doubt. As "your" diagram is wrong anyway (there are three independent former AfD-members), I have again reverted your edit. If you disagree, please start a discussion on the article's talk page before editing.Alektor89 (talk) 21:36, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
:::I'm not the author of the diagram so is not mine. The Westmister system is not an arch, and its design is to show the government vs opposition which is part of the Westmister system, but does not necesary corespond with the actual seating, you can see it yourself; this ↗ is how they actually seat in the UK House of Common, and this ↗ is the diagram use for Wikipedia, as you can see, they dont seat as the diagram shows. In fact is quite the opposite, the government is "up" and the opposition is "down".
:::Now regarding the other aspect, it is true that the sprectrum position is subjective, the current order is, let's sat, traditional or customary and all diagrams of all previous Bundestag follow that custom, you can questioned if you want, that is valid, but even if you change this diagram in particular you would left dozens of diagrams of all the previous Bundestags and elections used in several dozens of Wikipedia pages which would cause confusion among the readers. My suggestion is that you discuss the issue, and try to reach a consensus and thus the change can be made in all diagrams at once and not just in one. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 12:44, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
:::PD: In any case the best you can do and it will be the easiest and fastest way to have the result you want, is as I suggested before to make a diagram that actually represents the Bundestag's shape, like the ones I show you from Spain and Croatia, or you the one use in the Legislative Assembly of Costa Rica ↗ or this one from Mexico ↗. No one is going to question the seating, there will be no need to have long discussions about what party is more right or left wing and the independents can be located where they are literally seated without the problem of see where in the spectrum actually are. Seriously, is by far the best option and the easiest and fastest way, trust me. Give it a try. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 12:59, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
::::User talk:Dereck Camacho: I have put your in "..." to show that I do not mean this literally ("your" in the sense that you prefer it). Would you be OK if I would change the diagrams of all past Bundestags so that the FDP sits right of the Union (which it always has done and which can be proven with sources easily)? I would take a few hours an do this, if this settles our argument. [I will also post this on the article's talk page, where this discussion should continue] Alektor89 (talk) 14:50, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
:::::Alektor89 It will be helpful, yes, but I can't unilaterally decide for all the people involved. If you manage to obtain a majority of people and the authors of the diagrams for the change, I'll be happy to do it. One of the authors is actually a close collaborator in Spanish so I can help you reach him. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 14:54, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
::::::User:Dereck Camacho: As far as I can see, only the 1st and the 2nd Bundestag have own WIKI-articles (in english) [and use a completely different diagram]:
::::::https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_German_Bundestag
::::::*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_German_Bundestag
::::::So this should be no big thing, or do you know articles which I did not find? Alektor89 (talk) 15:01, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

All the German elections have diagrams, at least in Spanish ↗, and also the state ones ↗. And also there are diagrams in every state parliament, at least in Spanish ↗. Also in the federal elections the CSU is represented, so be careful to remember that. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 15:23, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
::User talk:Dereck Camacho But diagrams in '''election'''-articles are in some ways different from diagrams in '''parliament'''-articles. Diagrams in election-articles only represent the seat distribution '''after''' as part of the election-results and '''before''' the new parliament actually starts to sit (and seat order / group-structure are established). Let me give you an example, why this may cause differences: While I think, CDU and CSU must be treated as one group in the article "Bundestag" (which they are and have been in all past Bundestags), they should not be treated that way in the election articles. -> In the election they are two different parties, in the parliament they are one group. So I think that it is correct that they are shown seperatly in the diagram in German federal election 2017 ↗ while we should show them as an entitiy in the articel Bundestag ↗. And as the actual seating is decided '''after''' the election '''in''' the parliamentary process, I have also not a problem, if the FDP is in the middle or on the far left or on the far right in an '''election'''-article. Alektor89 (talk) 15:56, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
:::Oh man, you're still confuse about diagrams. You have a real problem about it. How many timnes do I have to prove you that the diagrams have absolutely nothing to do with how the parliament is seated? Please man, we will never get over this until you accept that fact.
:::So, it doesn't matter if the seating is different after the election, the seating has nothing to do. The diagram show whether the number from major to minor or the spectrum position. If you want to place FDP at the right of CDU you have to do that in all other diagrams because is a spectrum position nor where it is seated. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 19:24, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

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Bundesrat diagram

Hello! I noticed that you changed the diagram for Bundestag to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesrat_of_Germany#/media/File:Bundesrat6910(3).svg back in October. Would you consider making clear that votes must be cast en banc, and cannot be split? Egroeg5 (talk) 05:07, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
::Hey Egroeg5! This is stated multiple times in the article (e.g. section 4), I think. You are right that it is important to make clear that the BR is no normal parliament, but a delegation-assembly. The diagram only shows the strength of pro-government, neutral and opposition delegations which is the most reasonable thing to to (party membership is really not that important in the Bundesrat). Do you have an idea, how the diagram could be improved? Alektor89 (talk) 21:09, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

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Non-Inscrits or independents?

Hi Alektor,

I am the main author of the Parliament Diagram tool and I like to watch what is being created with it. I noticed that you've been creating a few German diagrams and that you've used the term "non-inscrits" to refer to "Fraktionslose". That's not really correct, because "non-inscrit" is specifically a term used in the EU parliament. Generally we use the term "independent" for parliament members who don't belong to a party. Just thought you'd like to know :-] --Slashme (talk) 08:36, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
:Hi Slashme, the Diagram tool is really a nice thing! The thing is that in my opinion in Germany we have to differentiate between indepentents and non-inscrits, too. An independent is a parliament member who is no member of any party. A non-inscrit is a parliament member, who is no member of a recognized party ("Fraktion") in a given parliament. In Germany, a party needs a certain number or percentage of seats in a parliament, to be a "Fraktion" (in the Bundestag 5%, in the state parliaments this differs, sometimes 5%, sometimes 3,4 or 5 seats...). An independen politician can join a "Fraktion" (for example Frank Richter, an independent politician, who is member of the Saxony state parliament and sits in the SPD-fraktion) and a non-inscrit can be member of a party (for example Anna Treuenfels-Frowein, who is member of the FDP but sits in the Hamburg state parliament as a non-inscrit, as she is the only FDP candidate, who was elected in the last election and one seat is not enough in Hamburg, in order to be a recognized "Fraktion"). So I think the difference between non-inscrit and independent makes much sense in Germany, too. Alektor89 (talk) 10:02, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
::Ah, OK, that makes sense! --Slashme (talk) 11:02, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

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Disambiguation link to Wolfgang Mischnick ↗ in Fourth and Fifth Adenauer cabinet

Why did you do that?!?!?!? Rundstef (talk) 07:23, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
:Yesterday I had to undo a number of changes made by the user Qäsee (who is doing quite a lot of vandalism in articles on German politics at the moment) concerning, among other things, the completely justified unification of the articles Cabinet Adenauer IV and V (there never was a Cabinet Adenauer V, what happenend in the fall of 1962 was in fact only a major cabinet reshuffle), which he had taken apart again. In doing so, I also had to undo changes made by other users so that no edit conflicts would arise, even though these may have been justified on their own. I don't remember now exactly what you did: If you have an improvement for the Fourth Adenauer cabinet ↗ article, feel free to reincorporate it there(!). Best regards and no hard feelings, Alektor89 (talk) 08:46, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

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"Minister president"

First of all, "consensus" or "precedent" doesn't have to be debated until there is a dispute. You are the one who is disputing and changing, repeatedly, so you have to take your proposal to the talk page. Except you don't even engage in debate.

"Minister-President", the correct plural being "Minister-Presidents" not "Ministers-President" (this is not like "Attorneys General"; these are terms that originally come from the French), is the correct spelling via dictionaries (https://de.pons.com/%C3%BCbersetzung/deutsch-englisch/Ministerpr%C3%A4sident and others) and basically all official state chancellery sites, such as:

Bavaria (https://www.bayern.de/staatsregierung/ministerpraesident/minister-president/)

Baden-Württemberg (https://www.baden-wuerttemberg.de/en/government/minister-president/)

Saxony (https://www.ministerpraesident.sachsen.de/en/minister-president-biography-3407.html)

Saxony-Anhalt (https://www.sachsen-anhalt.de/lang/english/politics/minister-president/)

Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (https://www.government-mv.de/The-Cabinet/)

Aside from my observation that "Minister president" just looks visually unappealing. Maxwhollymoralground (talk) 16:26, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

::It would have been better to discuss this on the article's talk page in order for other users to engage in the debate, but let's leave this apart. Pons (german school dictionary) and german websites don't take us that far in my opinion, as english wikipedia reflects the convention in the english speaking world. The Oxford Dictionary of English (2nd ed. 2005) doesn't know the term minister(-)president, but it has for example "minister general" (p. 1118) without "-". That qould be a possible analogon, in my opinion. Alektor89 (talk) 19:58, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

::I have moved the discussion to the article's talk-page, where the discussion should continue.Alektor89 (talk) 20:00, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

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Ways to improve Alexander Schweitzer (politician)

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Bundestag Diagram Request

Hey Alektor89, I didn't receive a response from you when I requested for you to thin out the borders on the seats of CSU and SSW, so i'll do it here.

If you see the Bundestag diagram for the outgoing legislature, the borders are much thinner than your current diagram for the incoming legislature. I would ask you to please change your current diagram, as the CSU and SSW colors are not clear enough for some people to see (me included).

Thank you for your time. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 01:14, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the suggestion! I've made them a bit thinner now, but also intentionally left them a bit thicker than in the old diagram. I had the opposite problem with that one, that the border is too thin and actually hardly visible. I hope it's ok now. Alektor89 (talk) 11:01, 28 February 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you for the change. It looks way better now! Jeffrey34555 (talk) 03:10, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

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