User Talk: Rohanstorey

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April 2017

25px|alt=Information icon ↗ Hello, I'm MelbourneStar. I noticed that you recently removed content from :List of tallest buildings in Melbourne ↗ without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary ↗. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox ↗. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page ↗. ''Additionally, please ensure that whatever content you add to said article -- or any article on Wikipedia -- that it is verified ↗ by provided reliable sources ↗.'' —<b style="color:#E22">Mel</b><b style="color:#F20">bourne</b><b style="color:#F73">Star</b><span style="color:#FF9F00;">☆</span><sup style="color:#407">'''''talk'''''</sup> 07:01, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Palais Theatre

I've explained my reasons for reverting the text to its original format in the edit description that I provided on the first of the most recent edits that I did. But, to repeat, it's my view that the most logical progression in which to describe the theatre and its history is as follow :

1. Explain precisely where the current theatre is located and its significance as being part of the original Edwardian era entertainment precinct

2. Provide an overview of the history of the site i.e. all and any previous structures that have been on that exact spot - detailing their construction in chronological order.

3. Outline the specific history of the current building

4. Discuss the Phillips brothers - simply using the existing text which is already on the page as there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Really don't know why on earth you're so hell bent on doing things in an utterly illogical, reverse order i.e. putting point 4 at the top of the list. It makes no sense, what so ever, from either a journalistic narrative /story telling viewpoint or from a heritage report viewpoint to discuss personalities before you have, even briefly discussed, the site and the buildings. The main point of the Palais Theatre page is to discuss the building, not the Phillips brothers, and that priority should be reflected in the text

Also, when you state that the Phillips "developed" the theatre... really .. what do mean by "developed" ? If you're inferring that they controlled the site, paid for the design and construction of the theatre and were the original owners why not just say so ? In fact, why not just leave the very simple, self explanatory line that I wrote some time ago i.e. the theatre was originally owned by the Phillips brothers.

Sorry, but with respect, you're going about things the wrong way.

Hi Sixties,

Thanks for more clearly explaining why you undid my revisions.

There dont seem to be any hard and fast rules about the arrangement of Wikipedia pages, but as an historian, in the history section, I would have thought putting the first events first, namely the arrival of the Phillips brothers, or maybe just one, in c1910. As to the text about them, its not completely correct; according to a reference on the JD Williams page ("Modern nomads and national film history: the multi-continental career of J. D. Williams") it isnt clear which or when exactly the Phillips' arrived, though i think they were all involved in the creation of Luna Park. Williams himself left about 1913 or 14, so actually he doesnt have anything to do with the current Palais, might be best not to discuss him in any great detail. Also I used the word 'developed' rather than owned because they built the theatre on leased state govt land (which it still is), so developed or maybe just 'built' is most correct.

The description of the location on the foreshore should perhaps go in the intro; doesn't really belong in the history, except to say the foreshore long been a place where entertainments built.

Im thinking that maybe the entry has too many odd sections, so maybe we should decide on a better format ? eg not sure a section for 'Firsts' is useful when its only got one ! and 'Features' is normally called 'architecture', where there could be a fuller description of the eclectic styles and of the inside too.

So maybe :

History of site - history of foreshore, the phillips, and the various earlier palais
History of the building - opening night, first films, jimi hendrix, use by ballet etc, death of phillips, recent controversies, loss of interior elements, and recent repainting and reopening.
Architecture - description of the features and the eclectic styles used (it is definitely NOT art deco)

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Image of Veneto Club

Hi Rohan - do you have a photo that could be used in the article?Garyvines (talk) 05:00, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Funny you should mention ! will load up to wiki commons.

And i will add ot article on Smrekar - ive just about finished editing in my sandbox. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding unsigned ↗ comment added by 203.214.40.85 ↗ (talk) 05:34, 14 June 2018 (UTC)</small>

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List of demolished buildings and structures in Melbourne

Hello, thanks for reaching out about this, and sorry for not getting back sooner. The destruction of Melbourne's Victorian landmarks is certainly a fascinating topic. I understand your approach to it, but I think by limiting it to the Victorian era (essentially ends with the death of Queen Victoria?), we miss out on some notable buildings that ''just'' fall outside the timeline. Even though these buildings were essentially the same in style. So it becomes a rather arbitrary distinction. I think opening it up to all buildings, and grouping by decade would be most helpful. - HappyWaldo (talk) 20:23, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

:Yes theres plenty of notable early 20thC buildings demolished too - so group by date of construction ? Any other parameters ? Like I said, if you put in everything going right back eg to the first wooden princes bridge, and if we start to include mansions - there were once so many ! - then the list will get very long. For instance, Im reading a book on early St Kilda right now, and theres at least 20 mansions demolished from the 1910s to the 1960s, and early hotels replaced by later ones, so Id stick to the 1904 sea baths, the palais de danse, and the St Moritz. So perhaps restrict to places that were well known landmarks ? Probably mainly city buildings ?
:Also I see the long list doesnt have any references. And Id say a few not really notable eg ANZAC house, Chalmers Hall, The Strand (1929), Elizabeth Street, Mercantile Mutual Chambers and RACV Insurance Queen Street, all nice but not remarkable.
:I might still resurrect my original page as a subsection, since its about a specific group of big landmarks all built in the 1880s, and all demolished 1950s-70s. Rohanstorey (talk) 04:26, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
::I think there are several equally valid approaches to organising the list. NYC ↗ goes by building type, then allows the reader to sort each individual list alphabetically, or by date of construction/demolition. Maybe this is the best way to go? As for which buildings to include, there is a murky space where notability starts to drops off. It would be absurd to include every little land boom cottage. If a building turns up in a decent number of secondary sources, it's a pretty good sign it's noteworthy and worthy of inclusion. And yes, it's great the detail you go into on the Victorian landmarks. I'm cool with the subsection or dividing it up into new articles for each building. - HappyWaldo (talk) 06:03, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
:::Ok the NYC list is good in that you can sort it a number of ways, so ok, list by type then i guess mainly alphabetical. Im not very skilled with tables, but i guess i / you can copy the new york list and repopulate it ? Btw only NY and London have lists of demolished places that i can see, so we're the third one ! London specifically notes its not exhaustive. Rohanstorey (talk) 07:48, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, just a matter of copying. Here is an example to build upon:

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+
|-
!|{{center|Image}}
!|{{center|Name}}
!|{{center|Date of built}}
!|{{center|Date of demolition}}
!|{{center|Address}}
!|{{center|Comment}}
|-
| 120px ↗
| Federal Coffee Palace ↗
| 1888
| 1973
| Collins Street
|
|-
| 120px ↗
| Queen's Coffee Palace
| 1888
| 1970
| Carlton
|
|}

Interesting that Melbourne is third. Certainly other cities lost a lot in the 50s-70s, but I feel like Melbourne was uniquely ruthless in tearing masterpieces down. There is an element of morbid curiosity to compiling these lists. Stings but can't help but look. - HappyWaldo (talk) 01:59, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

:I dont think Melbourne was uniquely ruthless, but we had a lot of rather large Victorian things given the size of the city - I think Birmingham for instance was even more ruthless, wiping out much of the Victorian city, and for the last 20 years wiping out the modernist blocks that replaced them ! I will set up the page in my sandbox and message you when its ready. Rohanstorey (talk) 06:16, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
:OK, I had a go, but then realised that many of the buildings have a lot of text, and that the New York and London have hyper links to an article for most of the places in the list. So I think well just have to go for sorting without a table - Id prefer period of construction, or we could possibly do building type, but there's a few that were both banks/financial institutions and office buildings, so hard ot know where to put them. Rohanstorey (talk) 06:47, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

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