User Talk: WillowCity

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Ça va?

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Mass removal of information in 2023 Israel-Hamas war

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war&diff=prev&oldid=1186431852 ↗ Please note you've performed a mass removal of information, the information seems to have been sourced by multiple sources, I've seen they appear legitimate. This is a notable topic in the war. Regarding talk discussion, I saw no consensus on this in talk discussion. If I'm not mistaken 6 editors took part in this discussion, 3 appear to be against the removal of information. Homerethegreat (talk) 15:34, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

::I second that. I have restored the material, please do not remove material without consensus. Dovidroth (talk) 15:51, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
:::Actually, the WP:ONUS ↗ for inclusion is on the party seeking inclusion. In the absence of consensus, it's appropriate to exclude disputed material unless and until consensus for inclusion is achieved. Virtually all editors on the talk page agree that it's somewhat foolish to have this 750-word passage related to a random grab-bag of allegations shoehorned under "Media reports"; pro-Israel editors want it integrated elsewhere in the article, and other editors want unreliable claims omitted altogether. I see the merit to both sides. This is fundamentally a WP:BALASP ↗ issue.
:::I see my edit as fully consistent with WP:BRD ↗, and I'm unaware of any policy or guideline my edit violated.
:::I will not be edit-warring (and in any case I used my 1RR removing that passage in the first place), but I maintain that I did nothing wrong. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 17:18, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
::::Anyway, another editor has substantially pared down the sections at issue; I think the current version should be satisfactory to all concerned, bearing in mind that the article is extremely long already and the sections involved are covered in child articles. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 17:22, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Continued From Closed Discussion

: Hi. It seems I'm too late to reply in the discussion ↗, so I'll reply here.
: I didn't realise Accusation in a mirror ↗ had it's own page. The "we need to genocide them first" rhetoric we are seeing now definitely belongs in that. It needs sources, but that particular angle shouldn't be too hard? It doesn't need to be definitively proven, just widely held enough as a point of view that it warrants mentioning? That's is a start, and then Accusation in a mirror ↗ would be a good {{tl|see also}} on Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel ↗.
: Masha Gessen ↗ wrote a provocative but insightful piece (that I've not read in full yet), but might be helpful. It was quite broad on how the Holocaust is remembered, but became controversial for an analogy between Gaza and the ghettos in Poland in WWII (to me it already looked like Lodz ghetto ↗ in about April 1943). That analogy isn't directly relevant, but Gessen's essay would be a place to start looking.
: Currently I'm trying to work on to many posts at once, and not managing very well at prioritising.
: Irtapil (talk) 05:07, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
::@Irtapil I just read the Gessen piece in ''The New Yorker'', it is definitely provocative, insightful, and well-written. They never specifically use the term mirror politics, but they do write: {{tq|Netanyahu has compared the Hamas murders at the music festival to the Holocaust by bullets. This comparison, picked up and recirculated by world leaders, including President Biden, serves to bolster Israel’s case for inflicting collective punishment on the residents of Gaza.}} I don't agree with everything Gessen wrote, but their piece is compelling.
::I've been looking for some sources that use the term "accusation in a mirror" or "mirror politics" or "mirror propaganda" specifically, but so far I've been coming up dry. Without a source like that, I'm not sure such a discussion would be possible without engaging in SYNTH. But I'll keep looking for sources. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 16:15, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Thank you for the reply. Sorry it took me so long to spot this. I've developed a bad habit of avoiding checking my notifications after seeing "your edit has been reverted by…" a few too many times. Irtapil (talk) 09:58, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

wait for the outcome of the RfC

Can you explain what you mean by "wait for the outcome of the RfC" in regards to the 2023 Gaza war? Not sure what the RfC acronym means or what you're trying to say. Thanks Giantsfann48 (talk) 03:56, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

:Sorry for the jargon—an RfC is a “Request for Comment ↗”, an invitation for Wikipedia editors to provide input on a disputed question, on the talk page of the relevant article. In this case there has been intense dispute over whether to include sexual violence in the lead section of the article on the Gaza war. In an RfC, editors !vote for their preferred option and provide the WP:POLICY ↗ basis for their position; then, an uninvolved user (usually an admin) assesses which (if any) option has consensus ↗. It’s considered best practice to avoid adding disputed content while it is being discussed in an RfC. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 04:07, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
:See the second point under Wikipedia:Requests for comment#Responding to an RfC ↗. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 04:12, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
::Why is what I wrote on the 2023 Gaza War page "disputed question or content" when there is an entire page dedicated to sexual assault on October 7th? Giantsfann48 (talk) 04:35, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
:::Editors have explained their views on the question in the RfC, which can be found on the article’s talk page. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 04:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for your work

{| style="border:1px solid gray; background-color: white;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:alt|alt|100px ↗|100px ↗}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size:x-large; padding:0; vertical-align:middle; height:1.1em;" | '''The Death Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align:middle; border-top:1px solid gray;" | For your efforts contributing to the page Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza ↗. Awarded by Scientelensia (talk) 19:27, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
|}

:Omg, this is so cool. Thank you so much! My very first barnstar!
:Such a sad topic, but it means a lot to be recognized for helping to expand coverage of it and spread awareness. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 19:42, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
::No problem! It is a sad topic but as you say it is a great thing to spread information and awareness. Scientelensia (talk) 21:14, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

New article

Hello,

I have created an article about the Human rights violations against Palestinians by Israel ↗. I thought you might be interested in improving or adding to the article. Thank you so much and best regards,Crampcomes (talk) 04:49, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I’ve worked extensively on building the Mass detentions in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war ↗ article and am very interested in this topic area; I’d be happy to pitch in. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 04:52, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
:@Crampcomes are there any particular areas or sections of this article you think need work/could benefit from my attention? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 14:05, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
::Basically the whole article could benefit from your expertise, but as expected and as has happened before with Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza ↗ article also. Pro-Israeli editors are attempting to have the article deleted to marginalize the atrocities against Palestinians. There's now the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Human rights violations against Palestinians by Israel ↗ nomination and I am pretty sure the outcome of it will be to keep the article. So I think it's better to wait and see the result of this nomination at the moment. Thanks so much and best regardsCrampcomes (talk) 15:21, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

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Your draft article, Draft:Wilson v Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd ↗

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Gaming the system

{{disdis|Nehushtani|spi=Galamore}}
<s>Hello. You currently have 1413 edits. However, approximately 1000 of your edits involve WP:ARBPIA ↗, meaning you do not have 500 edits outside of ARBPIA. This constitutes WP:Gaming ↗. Please refrain from editing anything related to the conflict until you get to 500 edits that are not in violation of WP:ECR ↗. Thank you. Nehushtani (talk) 13:45, 2 November 2025 (UTC)</s>

:Thanks for your message. I am not aware of any policy to this effect. I believe your interpretation of WP:GAMING ↗ is incorrect. You seem to be accusing me ↗ of WP:PGAME ↗, but that is clearly not applicable: I did not make {{tq|"many unconstructive edits in a sandbox to become extended confirmed, and then makes controversial changes to extended confirmed protected articles."}} Rather, I made constructive edits across a range of topic areas, albeit with a particular area of expertise and interest. I will continue to edit Wikipedia as I have been, constructively and in line with established policy. In any case, I would encourage you to familiarize yourself with the policy on WP:AGF ↗ and WP:WL ↗. Cheers! <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 16:28, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion

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<s>link=|25px|alt=Information icon ↗ There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard ↗ regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.Nehushtani (talk) 07:50, 3 November 2025 (UTC)</s>

Drafting an open letter

{{hatnote|For full disclosure, I used a template to leave this message.}}

Hey WillowCity. I saw your comment on Talk:Gaza genocide ↗. Would you be interested in helping draft an open letter ↗ on this topic, akin to Wikipedia:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation ↗? That didn't get us anywhere, but this might. I've opened a userpage over at User:Wound theology/Draft open letter for this. <span style="background:black; color:white; padding:2px;">wound theology</span><span style="background:black; color:red; padding:2px;">◈</span> 01:54, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @<span style="background:black; color:white; padding:2px;">wound theology</span><span style="background:black; color:red; padding:2px;">◈</span>, thanks for reaching out. I'm interested in this concept and admire the chutzpah. My question is: do you have a concrete ask in mind? The draft mentions a commitment not to invoke his position when weighing in on WP:CTOPS ↗, which is good because it's specific and actionable. But I think you rightly identify bigger ({{tq|existential}}) questions that perhaps requires something bigger? I just don't know what that could be. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 03:39, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
:Side note: I thought your invocation of Teach the Controversy ↗ in the talk page discussion was very clever. I hadn't thought of it that way but it's a great parallel. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 12:19, 5 November 2025 (UTC)
::Hey again, sorry for the late response, I got caught up responding to WP:9T ↗. Personally, I no longer trust Jimbo to impartially use his influence; but asking him to step down from the WMF seems somewhat...nuclear. Perhaps a verbal commitment to abide by community consensus and deal with these topics internally here, instead of -- for example -- going to do interviews that have the practical effect of WP:CANVAS ↗ing partisan editors. And thank you for the compliment! <span style="background:black; color:white; padding:2px;">wound theology</span><span style="background:black; color:red; padding:2px;">◈</span> 14:33, 7 November 2025 (UTC)
:::This all makes good sense. In addition to canvassing via the media, he was trouted ↗ for canvassing on his talk-page. I think as well there was much concern regarding the amount of disruption generated. The temperature is always high in PIA, and his WP:FORUM ↗ing needlessly lit a touchpaper. So yeah, I think a commitment to engage with internal processes without leveraging his influence, either here or offline, is a good concrete ask. Depending on my availability I may hop in with some suggestions for language, on the open letter page itself.
:::(The so-called nine theses are a disaster. Glad it's being refuted.) <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 22:09, 7 November 2025 (UTC)

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Formatting on Israel RfC ↗

Hi I'm just writting to you that the tables you added actually makes the conversation harder to follow. I am not sure to what you are answering and it makes it hard to follow the conversation, as I am unsure as to where to even place my response. Would it possible to present your answer in a bullet-point format?
Cheers and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way. Chefs-kiss (talk) 14:13, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

:Hi there, thanks for your message, but I was not the one who added those tables. I believe that was @User:Vice regent. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 14:22, 25 November 2025 (UTC)
::ah ok. sorry then! I'll reach out to them instead Chefs-kiss (talk) 21:31, 25 November 2025 (UTC)
:::@Chefs-kiss actually, what tables are you referring to? In the bottom section, or in the survey section? I put my comment in a box in the discussion section so as not to clutter the page. But the tables with graphics in the vote section are the ones I was referring to above, added by VR <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 22:03, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

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SCC Infobox

Hi WillowCity, I reverted your changes to the Ahluwahlia infobox, even though you followed the template fields, because that template is badly flawed. It appears to have been copied directly from the SCOTUS infobox, with only some minor cosmetic changes; in particular, SCOTUS uses "join", SCC uses "concurring", but the infobox produces "join". I would like to create a proper SCC infobox, but don't have the skill set. I raised the issue on the Canadian wikipedian notice board ↗ a few months ago, and got some interest in making an SCC template.

Over the summer, I will try to set up a working group to get a made-in-Canada template. Would you like to participate in that? Best wishes, Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 16:46, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

:Gosh, you're right. I can't believe I missed that. That is definitely an issue with the template. Thanks.
:Having said that, I think a partial revert may have been appropriate? I may go back and reinstate some of my other edits. For example, I think the "Full case name" is incorrectly stated at the moment; the full name is simply ''Ahluwalia v. Ahluwalia''. I don't think we typically include all the intervenors in the style of cause; other Wiki articles about SCC cases (including ones I've created, like ''Mounted Police Association of Ontario v Canada ↗'', and ones I haven't, like ''Doré v Barreau du Québec ↗'') don't do that.
:Speaking of standardization, perhaps the title should be changed to ''Ahluwalia v Ahluwalia'' (no period after v.), which seems to be more common for articles on SCC cases?
:Anyway, I would like to participate in fixing up the template for Canadian judicial decisions, particularly SCC decisions.
:And thanks for creating the article. It's an important case. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 23:45, 13 June 2026 (UTC)
:Articles on supreme court cases from other countries are split regarding the period, to be fair. For example, ''Miranda v. Arizona ↗'' or ''Obergefell v. Hodges ↗'' and ''For Women Scotland Ltd v The Scottish Ministers ↗'' or R (Miller) v The Prime Minister and Cherry v Advocate General for Scotland ↗. Maybe the working group you're talking about could think about standardizing other aspects of SCC articles. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 00:07, 14 June 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks for the comments; when I get working on the infobox I'll let you know; glad to hear you're interested in participating.
::With respect to the full name, I think we should go by the judgment itself, which lists all of those interveners in the style of cause on the judgment; they've been given the right to participate, file written submissions, and in some cases, make oral arguments, after all. They're not parties, but they're certainly participants in the appeal. Including them all as part of the full name is also consistent with the ''Rules of the Supreme Court'', which require that all of the interveners be listed in the style of cause on every document filed with the Court. See r. 22(3) of the SC Rules ↗ Given that, I think the list of interveners is part of the full name of the case, and should be included. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 02:40, 15 June 2026 (UTC)
:::I see your point, but I'm not sure I agree that the intervenors are part of the full case name, even if they are parties (or near-parties) to the litigation. I think the solution, since we're talking about revising the infobox, would be to have a separate field for intervenors (rather than just putting them all in the "full name" box). But I obviously don't have strong feelings. I'm just thinking in terms of Wiki policy and especially readability. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color: #9932CC;">'''WillowCity'''</span></span><sup style="color: #9932CC;">(talk)</sup> 13:53, 15 June 2026 (UTC)