User Talk: Enplaned

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Proposed deletion of Global Eagle Entertainment

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The article Global Eagle Entertainment ↗ has been proposed for deletion ↗ because of the following concern:
:'''No indication of notability per relevant standard (WP:ORG ↗). Could not find significant coverage by reliable ↗ independent ↗ secondary ↗ sources. A Google News search suggests that GEE is engaging in an aggressive digital marketing push to drive up its stock price. Several WP:SPA ↗s have been adding promotional content to this article at the same time.'''

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Nomination of :Global Eagle Entertainment ↗ for deletion

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Original research

25px|alt=Information icon ↗ Welcome to Wikipedia ↗. We appreciate your contributions ↗, but in one of your recent edits to :Midway Airlines (1976–1991) ↗, it appears that you have added original research ↗, which is against Wikipedia's policies. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and personal experiences—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say ↗. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source ↗ for all of your contributions. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources ↗. Thank you. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 19:27, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

:I respectfully suggest that when someone writes a long, extensively cited article, the appropriate first response to editorializing is not to dump the article, but to ask the author to revise. There was bathwater in that article, but there was also a healthy baby. The version you reinstated was poor and had 16 citations - most airline articles are, frankly, really bad. The one you dumped had over 100 citations, including many to original government, company and industry documents - which included financial data - many of which are available for anyone to inspect via links. If you want to judge how a company did, profitability is pretty fundamental. It's rare to see airline articles that contain performance data (lots of what airplanes were flown when). Seems to me we should want to encourage such data.
:You dumped all of that. I'd suggest a more constructive approach would be to ask me to revise. You're always free to later dump an article if the author is unresponsive.
:Some of the paragraphs I wrote are literally cited sentence by sentence. In my experience, that's extremely rare in Wikipedia articles. Enplaned (talk) 01:35, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
::Nothing is thrown out... Its all preserved in the history and anything you wish to revise can be pulled from there. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 06:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

CS1 error on Florida Express ↗

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A bare URL ↗ error. References show this error when one of the URL-containing parameters cannot be paired with an associated title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Florida_Express&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1229464798%7CFlorida%20Express%5D%5D Ask for help])

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June 2024

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&maltese; SunDawn &maltese; (contact) 08:57, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Airline deregulation and the end of the Muse era

Your February edit ↗ to the History of Southwest Airlines ↗ added a section titled ''Airline deregulation and the end of the Muse era''. The section includes some bold and opinionated claims, editorializing, and a bit of mild WP:PUFFERY ↗ that lacks clear inline citations, making it hard to tell if these are your opinions or if they are are drawn from the Muse book that is cited sparingly.
{{quote frame|A significant inspiration for the Act was the success of Southwest, PSA and other intrastate carriers.}}
{{quote frame|...the CAB (which in the meantime was generally accommodating)...}}
{{Quote frame|With a Federal certificate, Southwest was more free to expand within the entire United States than it had ever been within Texas; it didn't have to ask permission to enter a market and market entry couldn't be challenged in court.}}
{{Quote frame|Muse and King had never seen eye-to-eye.}}
{{Quote frame|...Muse was energetic, creative and critical to the startup and survival of Southwest...}}
{{Quote frame|...in a deregulated industry, Midway could function much the same way that Hobby or Love Field did... Midway was, in fact resuscitated after deregulation...}}
{{quote frame|...Southwest's expansion after deregulation was... slow and steady...}}
Additionally, I think this passage needs to be rewritten in plain language. I'm a bit stumped.
{{quote frame|...[Southwest was] keeping its financial powder dry...}}
Lastly, the sentences contrasting King and Muses's personal backgrounds seem out of place and irrelevant. If these are coming from a published source, they need clear attribution and perhaps a bit more explanation as to why they are relevant ("Historian Jane Smith says that Muse and King always clashed because Muse liked snooker ↗ and King preferred pool ↗, leading to shouting matches over which game would be played in the Southwest executive lounge..."). If it's speculation by you, it should be rewritten or deleted, per WP:SOAPBOX ↗ and WP:OR ↗.

I contemplated trying to rewrite the section, but the lack of clear citations and context makes this hard to do in an encyclopedic manner without access to the Muse book. Cheers, Carguychris (talk) 04:47, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

":Paradise Airlines ↗" listed at Redirects for discussion ↗

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The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paradise_Airlines&redirect=no Paradise Airlines] has been listed at redirects for discussion ↗ to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines ↗. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 11#Paradise Airlines}}''' until a consensus is reached.  RecycledPixels (talk) 17:22, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Paradise Airlines ↗

Thanks for creating the Paradise Airlines article. I'm not sure if you have access to Newspapers.com, but I encountered several stories of the company's early battles with the CAB about whether or not it truly qualified as an intra-state airline. (I misremembered it as battles with the FAA earlier today). It was a few years ago that I was working on that, but the overall argument that Paradise was making was that it was flying from Oakland to South Lake Tahoe, so it was just flying in California, whereas the CAB was taking the position that most of the passengers who were flying to South Lake Tahoe were going to the Nevada Casinos, so the airline needed to be treated as an interstate airline. The debate was still taking place by the time of the crash, with no resolution yet, and the FAA resolved it by suspending the airline and refusing to renew the license that was just coming up for renewal at the time. It was an interesting turf war between the CAB and intra-state airlines who were trying to escape the stifling bureaucracy that regulation by the CAB brought at the time. I don't have specific notes of those articles from when I was making the crash article because they were a bit too off-topic for that article, but the company launched in April 1962, so it's not a huge period of time to search, but I remember the search turned up a ton of Paradise Airlines ads from the time, making it a bit tedious. RecycledPixels (talk) 03:33, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

:I know the history of this issue.
:I don't think there was time for a battle with Paradise. The CAB made the claim, Paradise responded to it, so far as I can tell it didn't go any further than that before the crash.
:I wrote the Holiday Airlines article too. That issue percolates in the background during that airline's existence. It doesn't seem to really directly affect them, however.
:The CAB kind of gets a bit more active about that issue after PSA and Air California inherit the Holiday Tahoe routes in 1975.
:But the issue was still ongoing when deregulation makes the whole thing go away in 1979. The CAB says "hey, that kinda feels like interstate commerce to us" (and the CAB-regulated carriers are pushing the same line), but PSA and Air California say "nope" and nothing is decided.
:Reading between the lines, maybe the CAB was not super interested in taking it to court (which the CAB would do), because what if they lose? It clearly didn't rise anywhere close to the top of things the CAB cared about and I could see the state of California getting really upset if the CAB tried to tell them that their intrastate airlines needed Federal OK to fly between two California points.
:Since it bubbled for 15 years without resolution, I put it in the intrastate airline ↗ article, along with other weird CAB interstate/intrastate edge cases. Like the fact that intrastate airlines were essentially impossible in Hawaii. I think it would be a distraction in the Paradise, Holiday, Air California or PSA articles because, in the end, nothing happened. Enplaned (talk) 04:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

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Dashes

Quick note - don't use spaced mdashes on lists they are intended to be used without spaces, use spaced ndashes i.e. {{tl|ndash}} 10mmsocket (talk) 12:21, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

October 2025

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Thanks!{{sp}} Danners430 tweaks made ↗ 20:34, 20 October 2025 (UTC)

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&maltese; '''SunDawn''' &maltese; Contact me! 09:35, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

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February 2026

25px|alt=Information icon ↗ Please do not add or change content, as you did at :List of Boeing 747 operators ↗, without citing a reliable source ↗. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources ↗ to see how to add references to an article. ''You’re also still not providing edit summaries despite notices about them.'' Danners430 tweaks made ↗ 00:40, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

The reliable source is available by going to the Wikipedia page in question. But I'll add something.

25px|alt=Warning icon ↗ Please stop. If you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced ↗ content, as you did at :UPS Airlines ↗, you may be blocked from editing ↗. ''I can’t believe I’m placing this on an editor who’s been here for 12 years, but there we are…'' Danners430 tweaks made ↗ 22:10, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

:I put a "further" reference to two articles. If you got to those articles, they are fully referenced. I mean, fully referenced. Referenced to a fair thee well. In many cases, referenced sentence by sentence. What I wrote accurately reflected referenced material in those articles.
:To me, it is entirely appropriate to pull in, or summarize, via a main or further reference, info from another article. I can repeat the references from those main (or further) articles, but to me the entire purpose of those further/main templates is to summarize info so that one does not have to repeat references. And my brief review of the template entries from those appears to be consistent with my understanding.
:If this is NOT your understanding of further/main and you can show me that my understanding of these is wrong, then please show me. Otherwise, if my understanding is correct, then I think you need to back off.
:Also, let me just say, I've been active for about two years in terms of article creation/recreation. I would venture to say that during that time, no one has contributed more *referenced* material in aviation/airlines than me. I mean, referenced up the damn wazoo. Some of the stuff I written is almost comical in that sentence by damn sentence there's a reference, usually to something someone can click through and immediately verify for themselves.
:I'm not happy about your implication that I'm just spraying random crap into wikipedia, not happy at all.
:Did you, perchance, bother to click through to those further references before your knee jerked? Enplaned (talk) 22:27, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
::You didn't add any references at all. If you mean you added wiki links, they aren't sources or citations… indeed Wikipedia cannot be used as a reliable source per WP:CIRCULAR ↗. If there are reliable sources on the linked article which verify what you're adding, then they can be copied over to verify the content where it's being added. But readers cannot be expected to go hunting for sources - it's up to us to provide them. Danners430 tweaks made ↗ 23:25, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
:::I'm not sure what the principle is, or should be, but I'm very sure it's not that we can't ask readers to hunt for references, given that's how most significant wikipedia articles work.
:::Wikipedia deprecates having references in the lead section. It also says that no reference is required in an infobox if the info is given (with reference) in the body of the article. So, in practice, almost every non-trivial article is a reference truffle hunt, where for any assertion in the lead section or infobox you need to determine what subsection of the article covers that info, find the assertion and look for (hopefully) the associated reference.
:::So, again, open to whatever the principle might be, but the one you claim is clearly not one by which Wikipedia operates. Otherwise lead sections and infoboxes would be covered with in-line references, which they are not.
:::For that matter, people will refer to say, Microsoft as a software company all the time without providing a reference that proves it ("it" being that Microsoft makes software and not pillows.) There's stuff we make readers click for all the time and within reason we should not be afraid of that. Enplaned (talk) 01:51, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
::::You're missing one very important point - references are not required in the lead or in the infobox if the information exists in the body of the article '''and is sources there'''. The information still needs to be sources to a reliable source in the article, those two guidelines are just about moving that source to a different location in the article. That also has nothing whatsoever with adding unsourced content, namely an entire paragraph. As I said above - Wikilinks are just that, links to other articles… they aren't references or citations. Danners430 tweaks made ↗ 07:12, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

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