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A barnstar for you!



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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | for dedication and endurance building List of fraternities and sororities at Cornell University ↗<br><span style="border: solid 2px black; border-radius: 6px; box-shadow: gray 3px 3px 3px;">&nbsp;Unician&nbsp;'''&nabla;'''&nbsp;</span> 06:17, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
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barnstar



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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | for thankless work creating a number of chapter lists <span style="color:red">'''DOCUMENT'''</span><span style="color:black">'''★'''</span><span style="color:maroon">'''ERROR'''</span> 01:17, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
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A barnstar for you!



{| style="border: 2px solid green; background-color: #FFFAF0;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" |{{#ifeq:For your tireless contributions to Fraternity/Sorority articles.|alt|100px ↗|100px ↗}}
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Turning Wikipedia Green Barnstar'''
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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 2px solid gray;" | For your tireless contributions to Fraternity/Sorority articles.
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––<span style="color: #0151D2;font-family: 'Trebuchet MS';font-size:101%">'''FormalDude'''</span> <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:2px 5px;background:#0151D2;font-size:75%"><span style="color:#FFF">'''talk'''</span></span> 22:37, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
:Buddy! Thanks! Jax MN (talk) 22:37, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Alpha Kappa Rho



I don't believe it either, but 1,000 chapters wouldn't surprise me. Alpha Phi Omega of the Philippines has over 300 chapters and about 300 Alumni Associations. and some of the GLOs in the Philippines operate like the USA NPHC fraternities and sororities and have full non-collegiate chapters outside their home country. (The list of country flags doesn't surprise me, Alpha Kappa Rho is also one of the more numerous in the Philippines. Whenever I curse not being able to get up to date information on Alpha Phi Omega of the Philippines, I have to remind myself that they are one of the better documented. (Glitches in membership records during the Marcos years not withstanding.) Frankly working on active fraternities and sororities in the Philippines can be tougher than working on groups in the USA that have been inactive for 50 years!Naraht (talk) 20:50, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
:They claim a chapter in Malta. Good grief, that would be the tiniest of fractions, global travelers, no, ex-pats who reside in Malta, themselves the tiniest fraction of the law school grads who are themselves a fraction of the student bodies of a couple of Philippine universities. If not native Filipinos, why would a native society in Malta of all places adopt Alpha Kappa Rho? The entire national is less than 50 years old. I call it utter shenanigans. If I'm wrong, maybe my holding the line on this will force them to create a website for their 20,000 chapters and 5M members. Methinks the whole thing is absurd. Jax MN (talk) 22:28, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
::I think you are confusing Alpha Kappa Rho with a group like Sigma Rho. Alpha Kappa Rho is *not* restricted to law school graduates. And given https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS-rJ9oIbJI , I'm inclined to believe it exists. Alpha Phi Omega of the Philippines has an Alumni Association in Milan, Italy that has existed since 2006. Filipino expats end up *everywhere*. I also think 20,000 is wrong, but I wouldn't bat an eye at 1,000. The primary question is how to count the equivalent of "Alumni Associations".Naraht (talk) 23:06, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Iota Phi Theta chapter list



Looks like the list from the UofIll site is a good start for an Iota Phi Theta list *and* unlike every other NPHC group I've seen, the National website has most if not all of the information on where chapters are. (https://iotaphitheta.org/iotaphitheta/chapter-locator) Looks like the UofIll site doesn't understand the chapters ending in Omega are graduate chapters, so some tweeking is needed. I've taken the info from the UofIll side and will build an excel spreadsheet from that and then automate the creation of the FratChapter template lines. The Graduate chapters will need to go into a separate list generated from the national chapter-locator.Naraht (talk) 18:58, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Nu Beta Epsilon



An actual Article which might show notability (as opposed to being mentioned as existing) page 11. https://www.nli.org.il/ar/newspapers/?a=is&oid=cgs19400411-01&type=staticpdf&submitted=1&e=-------ar-20--1--img-txIN%7CtxTI--------------1&g-recaptcha-response=03AGdBq25ScOclKrZAQS4iXqQa72nindEgAhvn0Hh8U89RaJMWD4AtTzFu92XfpLGC7Bnr4gji4NZJ638vaK6EYsOsLD1GVBJiRciX9OaskAujDrFT4j9U9bdQJhNsWUBmckc474ndWJbzflSvVbIKZ_loVvwGbX2iBcmTRG0fSWi_UvSQcjXg7EAkn_y0qmt6CooP8IQ27RvXiWlN4eYWP9y-4rM4LYZEtDST059eE5gW-KHQRd2H86VVEIvlkKgQQ62Tti-cFsYfvTV9mmFb7n2rdSatOBxKQodL-TyqTsjywMY47z87Ods_5XOgEwJD0q7F7JGko3GfcTrfLxY_8eOgq3i31w27nq7gRXXG0jcskCaAjk9ivGGimhREpohRoV_aCdq6B5BUoQU8fKKaDyAVnBVCnaLq8Qzc9qPDHkx3rn3G6s3raydsMAVD9kE66pLltdqpfm3o0tNyeda3raopdyipta6kTg

(yes, that is one obnoxiously long URL). Chapter names seem to be like some of the other legal groups. I have seen both Brandeis (the founding chapter), Judah Benjamin and Cordozo. But from the page at U of Miami, it looks like they changed to greek letters. What I've found has mostly been chapters around Chicago, U of Miami and George Washington.Naraht (talk) 09:45, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

:Thank you. I read the article, finding it on p.11. It will be valuable proof of notability for a Wikipedia article. Papers like the ''Sentinel'' are so painful to read. Did you see the ads, requesting funds for "distressed relatives" in Poland, Lithuania, and other places? Already, word was leaking out of German atrocities. Already, writers were noting the propaganda, meant to inflame anti-Semitism. But these poor souls didn't know the horror that would unfold within a year or two.

:{{U|Naraht}}, I will be sporadically active here, as I've got a busy season for work fast approaching. With your help I was able to identify and update many articles that needed infoboxes, and some of these need chapter list tables. I'm pleased with the most recent three, Beta Kappa ↗, Phi Kappa (Catholic fraternity) ↗, and Theta Kappa Phi ↗. Those chapter list tables will continue to be a focus, with further attention to the to-do list. Where I can, I now add an 80px, tightly cropped member badge to the infobox, color if possible. That size appears to pass review. I've only had a couple of the many graphics I've uploaded turned back because of size. They seem to be acceptable if I keep them under 60KB. As for new pages, I plan to write the Clovia page next. For the Project, I would like to offer further guidance for newer editors, to list for them what other maintenance or development projects they might take on. Your list of missing infoboxes helped me, for example. Jax MN (talk) 18:18, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
::Yes, Painful. I've read other issues, some even later. I'm glad these three got the care they did. Have fun with Clovia. My two that I intend to complete by the end of January are the IOta Phi Theta chapter list and piecing together everything for Nu Beta Epsilon. Are you in a job is normally busy in the first part of the year? I'm not sure who else does significant work across the Greek Letter Organizations, but we certainly need new blood.Naraht (talk) 20:38, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

:::I am a consultant, with a normal workload of three, 3-month-duration, focused projects a year. I could pursue more, expanding my team, and am shifting a bit to offer a set of services learned over the past year. It just happened that I had some free time over the past couple of months to research all those missing graphics and to create the infoboxes I did. Normally, this WP work is an evening project, when everyone has gone to sleep, meaning that it's more of a part time thing for me. But it remains a labor of love: I had several great uncles who were Freemasons and fraternity men. I followed in their footsteps, joining several organizations (APO, Phi Sig, the Masons and their related groups, and several honor societies), and from one uncle's treasure trove of books and memorabilia I inherited a love of the 1920s. All that has sparked my continued interest in researching these groups, many of which date to that period.

:::I agree that we need new blood. I often (now) patrol the edit list, and offer recommendations and thanks. We could still use a couple more strong volunteers. Jax MN (talk) 20:49, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
::::At University of Minnesota, I presume. Yeah, more GLOs in 1925 than in 1975, I think. I was actually hoping the guy who was changing the Iota Phi Theta alumni would stay around. But I think the articles covered by WP:FRAT are strong than they were a few years ago. Now if we could just manage to justify all of the NALFO and APIDA groups having pages.Naraht (talk) 19:09, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
:::::Yes, at the U of MN. You graduated from Carnegie Mellon, right?
:::::I am motivated to write or improve pages for all of these legitimate societies which serve collegiate populations. Thriving or small, it doesn't matter. I've less concern for high school and non-collegiate societies, but yet for ''them'' it does seem valuable that we identify them and support maintenance (and inclusion in the Watchlist) in order to distinguish which ones are which. That's one reason I'm so pleased with the addition of an Affiliation parameter. Baird's had it right, by the 8th or 10th edition or so, to set the bar of inclusion as a "national" to require at least three chapters, even if one or more had closed. As I tend to be a Wikipedia Inclusionist around here, as opposed to Deletionist, I'm supportive of including the small or dormant groups as notable - following the updated inclusion rules of course. A topic our Project will have to address is the puffery and peacock language that fills the articles for the Divine Nine. They rarely get a significant cleanup, leading to a misperception of heightened importance for these organizations or an unfair and perhaps unearned assessment of the quality of the articles (leading to Featured Article (FA) candidates, Good Article (GA) candidates, etc.) whereas the NIC and NPC group articles are scrutinized and clipped far more aggressively. Another topic we should address is to help readers understand which type of honor society it is they are dealing with. One of the multi-discipline societies? A single discipline, independent group? A captive honor society, like the one owned by the association of insurance agents, and used as a funnel for employees? Or one of the high-cost, for-profit honor societies that may be a not-for-profit, but which clearly pays big salaries to its founder and directors. Lots to do.
:::::Overall, yes, I agree with you: the pages supported by our Project are much improved. Jax MN (talk) 23:58, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Sigma Gamma Epsilon



http://www.sigmagammaepsilon.com/f11webchapterlist.pdf

As of Fall 2011.Naraht (talk) 19:13, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Beta Sigma Tau CoA image



https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.32106019794517&view=1up&seq=248&skin=2021&q1=%22Beta%20Sigma%20Tau%22

Good enough to clip?Naraht (talk) 21:26, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
:https://archive.org/details/LETTERTOMRHENRYMROSENWALDFROMALLENWDULLES80B01676R0038001800301/page/n1/mode/2up?q=%22Beta+Sigma+Tau%22 might be better for clipping.Naraht (talk) 21:38, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
:@Naraht I happened to find one on a UNC Pi Lamb chapter website. Must have been from an earlier history. It matches the crests you found, but is in color. Jax MN (talk) 00:16, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
::{{U|Jax MN}} Cool!

Kappa Sigma Kappa



Just because we did so on Alpha Lambda Tau ↗ and Beta Sigma Tau ↗, I think the table for the second incarnation should include the Theta Xi chapter that they became. (Possibly the first table as well). The list of Theta Xi chapters on the Theta Xi website makes it quite clear (they are all down at the bottom since they all start with Kappa). Let me know if you want to, if you want me to or if you don't think it is a good idea.Naraht (talk) 14:18, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
::I don't mind either way. I like the formatting of this article slightly better, and was looking for consensus on this matter. Yes, certainly: I agree we ought to list the successor chapter name within the merged fraternity. To your point, the longer notes field where the new chapter name is listed could be helpful, but it widens the table somewhat - I don't know if that becomes a problem on smaller tablets or screens as I use two widescreen desk monitors when working on these. When I experimented with the formatting for Kappa Sigma Kappa ↗ (versus ALT and BST) I added additional detail in the footnotes to make the information more clear. Would researchers or readers be put off by not having the eventual chapter listed in the ''body text'' of the table? Or is a mention of the chapter name enough, where relegated to the footnotes like they are, here? I agree, too, that once we decide, we ought to adjust the other national organizations similarly. (This could become a year-long project in itself, updating list pages and adding them where they haven't yet been written, and in the same way, moving some of the notes to the EFN template.) Big picture, I'm pleased with this page, though it still has holes. --The lack of consistent source material has left it worse than most, with some missing dates and missing chapters. I am glad to see you found an additional possible chapter at Mount St. Mary's ↗. I'm also intrigued by the placement of several foreign chapters. There may be an interesting story there, from their national publication, perhaps? I noted that the third iteration may have 30 or more chapters, but these may be legacy claims of the non-merged chapters that were actually dormant. Dunno...
::I have two reflections, {{U|Naraht}}, as I mull these these options over. First, that we cannot place everything into body text or table text, and that casual researchers who aren't as picky as I am (maybe you, too, in that club), will find the bread crumb trail triggered by seeing the national letters alone, enough to spark them to read the references and notes. But I also note that where there is an open question or ambiguity, like for the SUNY Buffalo or Columbia chapters of BST, by promoting the issue to the visible table notes these fields may elicit answers from other readers. Jax MN (talk) 19:03, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
:::I'm not sure whether it makes it that much wider, in the second table, one entry goes on to the second line, Trine. I'm not sure that changing them from HT to AB of HT (don't feel like typing greek letters here) would make the boxes overall taller or wider, but Alpha Beta of HT probably would.
:::As for the holes. I know this one has lots. And I'd love to have a fraternity magazine. I dropped an email to U of Tasmania in Hobart, there do appear to be a few cases where the school is referred to as U of Hobart, so that might solve that.
:::As for the notes, my only real problem was the combination of refs and notes. And I decided a long time ago that your feeling on GLO articles especially ones that have gone under is closer to the way that you did the original document at U of Minnesota. Someday, someone may force us to pare the notes down. Until that point, I do find them quite interesting.Naraht (talk) 19:26, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Next ?


So which group (and I'm fine with one off of the unlinked at List of fraternities and sororities at the University of Minnesota ↗ is next?
:I defer to you. My list at the U of MN is a starting point, as an (ahem) comprehensive list, though if there were a similar page of Illinois or Columbia GLOs it might even be longer. We might also start working through the list of dormant groups in Baird's. Jax MN (talk) 19:39, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Sigma Omega Psi



I think I've decided on my "next", Sigma Omega Psi. Merged with AEPi in 1940 with only 3 new chapters but had at least a dozen. However AEPI also absorbed one into the AEPi Alpha and considers several charterings to be restarts of Sigma Omega Psi chapters. Never made the main listing areas in Baird's but had quite a few chapters listed (though different in different editions and no chapter chartering dates. Actually pretty annoying that only 1914 is listed as a founding date. https://www.aepibama.org/our-history would be a good place to start as well, but it appears they won't know who owns the copyright for the pin image. :( Feel free to create the page if you want, but I'll try to put stuff in over the next copy of days.Naraht (talk) 21:29, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
:Here's the Archive page. Baird's Archive, document showing Sigma Omega Psi ↗. As for the pin image, no worries if it is copyrighted. Wikipedia carves out the right to show a smaller version of an image to be used as the corporate identifier. When I have both a crest and a pin, the pin is OK, if shown in smaller format, as long as it is discussed in the body text. One of the yearbooks might have a more accurate founding date. Jax MN (talk) 22:25, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Alpha Kappa Sigma



Given that the page has been created and deleted *five* times, I've talked to an admin about creating it for the Law fraternity, I indicated that I would create it in my sandbox and let another member of the WP:FRAT take a look. Note, he asked me to use the :Category:Professional legal fraternities and sororities in the United States ↗ as a guide. I realized that I'm the original creator for four out of the eight groups there. I really wonder sometimes what percentage of Greek Letter Organization pages that you or I are the original authors. :) Naraht (talk) 13:44, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Yep. I hold out hope that we will gather more volunteers. This is the reason I leave all those To Do pages, with instructions or suggestions for article improvements. Sort of a bread crumb strategy, to coax casual readers to do more. Jax MN (talk) 17:05, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:One of these days I have *got* to move some of this page into an archive. Once I take the time to figure that out. Jax MN (talk) 17:06, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Language Honoraries.



I've been working on Delta Phi Alpha ↗ including talking to their national president. I know that they want to keep the article under that name, but I've really been thinking of changing *that* to a dab page like French National Honor Society ↗ (and yes, <lang> National Honor Society vs. National <lang> Honor society can get confusing.) In addition, for the various "levels", a page about a specific honor society should only link to those at the same "level" or the same language, so for example, a page about the High School honorary in Spanish should only link to other High School honoraries and to any other Spanish Language honoraries regardless of Level. (I'm quite willing to move this disucussion to WP:FRAT) Naraht (talk) 14:23, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
:These three (German, French and Spanish) seem to operate within their own bubbles, with little crossover to other GLOs. Did you check how they answer their phone? Do they start by calling themselves the German National Honor Society? or as Delta Phi Alpha? I fall back to self-determination as my rule of thumb, versus my (as an outsider) choosing how they ought to be labeled. --Thus naming conventions can get messy. But people are messy. Sigh. I don't know that a DAB is needed, but if these groups maintain usage of their GLO names I certainly support making those the primary name of the article, and using REDIRECTs for names like <nowiki><lang> National Honor Society</nowiki> and <nowiki>National <lang> Honor society</nowiki> Jax MN (talk) 16:19, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Linking to chapters



It is probably better to create List of Mu Mu Mu chapters ↗ as a redirect to the section and then add that to the list of chapters category as well as to where you are adding in the articles.Naraht (talk) 19:06, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
:Yep. I'm working on a new section for the F&S project Talk page, a working (expanding) list of all the missing or substandard chapter lists. Almost done with the first pass.
:My adjustment to the List of social fraternities and sororities ↗ is therefore a temporary improvement, and should be updated per your suggestion.

Sigma Iota Lambda?



I can't find anything in a quick google search on the group, is that what you meant to add?Naraht (talk) 16:35, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
:{{U|Naraht}}, thanks for catching that. Typo. I fixed it. Jax MN (talk) 17:30, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

You made my weekend



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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For finding the source for Sigma Mu Delta that we both missed
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Beta Kappa



What was the source for all of the information on where the chapters came from in the list, there are a lot of notes, but I couldn't find any indication on source. I'm specifically looking for where the Beta Kappa ↗ chapter at U of Illinois came from a group called Alpha Phi Omega. Naraht (talk) 13:17, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
:It had been some time, but looks like that information came from the Baird's Archive, the "inactive men's groups" document. I was able to trace a second group that merged into the Beta Kappa chapter just prior to the Theta Chi merger, and have corrected this in the reference note, where I had mistakenly thought it was merely another local. Rather, it was the ''Alpha chapter'' of a sputtering regional fraternity. Moving on to the predecessor of the Beta Kappa chapter, while the Archive doesn't specifically call out that the earlier APO was a local, it does indicate that that group formed in 1920, fully five years before the formation of the national service fraternity, and 12 years before expansion to the Illinois campus. So it was by inference that I determined the prior Illinois group was a local chapter. A scan of Illinois yearbooks may elicit more information. Jax MN (talk) 14:20, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
::I took a look at that sheet and don't see anything related (https://uofi.app.box.com/v/inactive-glos-mens).Naraht (talk) 18:27, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

:::That sheet has a listing for Beta Kappa, where that fraternity's Illinois chapter, ''Kappa chapter'', is noted with a predecessor group called Alpha Phi Omega dating to 1920. It also has a reference, their inline reference #7, which notes its absorption of a chapter of Delta Alpha Epsilon. If you search for the entry for Delta Alpha Epsilon you will note this was the ''Alpha chapter'' of that small fraternity, which at one point had four chapters. That absorption came about the same year of the national merger into Theta Chi, for Beta Kappa as a national. Do I misunderstand your query? Jax MN (talk) 19:16, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

:::Coincidentally, I have a friend who is an alumnus of Beta Kappa's ''Alpha chapter'' at Hamline University, now called Theta Chi ↗'s ''Beta Kappa chapter'', who is quite knowledgeable about the history of that national. He joined in the 1990s, but that group remains a solid chapter, and is quite proud of their history as a former national fraternity. Jax MN (talk) 19:20, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
::::Misread the entry. Note, I went to the 1922 Illio yearbook and didn't see any sign (Did see a chapter page for the Ku Klux Klan, made up of those from Social Fraternities, like a Fraternity honor society) https://libsysdigi.library.illinois.edu/OCA/Books2012-12/illio/illio1922univ/illio1922univ.pdf . So the question is where was the information on the sheet pulled from?Naraht (talk) 19:23, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

:::::That may have been due to publication timing. Check the 1923 or 1924 books. Jax MN (talk) 19:25, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
::::::Nope, went through the 1920s Illios. There is a "Delta Phi Omega" that appears to disappear where Beta Kappa comes on campus, but no "Alpha Phi Omega". I'm going to see if I can find the school newspaper from that time.Naraht (talk) 19:44, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

:::::::Carroll Lurdling would likely have additional material on this, that didn't make it into the archive. I have his email address, and could inquire on your behalf. Is your interest to clarify whether there was a relationship with the larger service fraternity? Jax MN (talk) 19:48, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Nope, to get a list of *every* time Alpha Phi Omega was used as the name of a Greek Letter Organizations. I would like to write him to *correct* the entry. I found an issue of the Daily Illini showing *clearly* that the predecessor of Beta Kappa was Delta Phi Omega, *not* Alpha Phi Omega. https://idnc.library.illinois.edu/?a=d&d=DIL19251024.2.86&srpos=16&e=-------en-20-DIL-1-byDA.rev-img-txIN-%22Delta+Phi+Omega%22---------
::::::::I have made a list through the years complete with school, when they existed, what they became and what the pin looked like if possible ranging from a Chemistry Honorary in North Dakota to an African American Beautician and Barber group. U of Illinois wasn't in my list, was on the wikipedia page for Beta Kappa (I go through and look for unlinked Alpha Phi Omega on Wikipedia) and I wanted to understand why. Answer appears to be that the archive has it wrong. (and for the school they are actually at!).Naraht (talk) 19:55, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::I'll send your reference, and request a correction. They'll file it until the next time they open that document. Jax MN (talk) 23:25, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::Thanx.Naraht (talk) 18:41, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Phi Alpha Tau



Periodically I find groups that are listed on your F&S at University of Minnesota. A list of Phi Alpha Tau through Pi is in the 1934 Emersonian.https://ia800407.us.archive.org/11/items/emersonianemerso1934unse/emersonianemerso1934unse.pdf Naraht (talk) 02:04, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
:Thank you very much. I added this as a reference, for future capture in a WP article about the fraternity. Jax MN (talk) 17:51, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on Psi Chi Omega ↗


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Speedy deletion ↗ nomination of :Honor Society Caucus ↗


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A tag has been placed on :Honor Society Caucus ↗ requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion ↗, because the article appears to be about a company, corporation or organization that does not credibly indicate ↗ how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion ↗, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable ↗.

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I have sent you a note about a page you started



Hi Jax MN. Thank you for your work on List of Phi Delta Epsilon chapters ↗. Another editor, Klbrain, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol ↗ and left the following comment:

{{Bq|1=Consistent with style and structure of other similar articles in :Category:Lists of chapters of Professional Fraternity Association members by society ↗.}}

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{code|<nowiki>{{Re|</nowiki>Klbrain<nowiki>}}</nowiki>}}. <small>(Message delivered via the Page Curation ↗ tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)</small><!-- Template:Sentnote-NPF -->

Klbrain (talk) 10:01, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

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Infobox Fraternity



Let me know if you want be to figure out a search for all of those usages of Infobox Fraternity that *don't* have the equal signs all in the same column. I *think* if there are less than 4 spaces between the type and the equal sign after it, then it can't line up with the equal sign for founded.Naraht (talk) 21:17, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
: Got curious, the following is probably a good start https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=fraternity+insource%3A%2F%7C+%2Atype+%7B0%2C3%7D%3D%2F+insource%3A%2Fbox+%5BfF%5Drat%2F&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 Naraht (talk) 21:24, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
:: I tend to update these, but as they all work without specific spacing it is more of a convenience for editors, versus a burning issue. I therefore wouldn't waste time making a category for these. As they crop up and as I have time, I adjust them. I also move params up and down, so there is consistency. Users of the Visual Editor don't care, but I use courier standard spacing and the regular editing window, so it is glaring to me. Thanks for the suggestion though. Jax MN (talk) 22:18, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
:::NP. I'm not convinced it will find the all, but a start. Wish there was a tool to help, but I don't think VE or AWB will do so.Naraht (talk) 01:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

July 2024




25px|alt=Information icon ↗ Hi Jax MN! I noticed that you have reverted to restore your preferred version of :University of Pittsburgh ↗ several times. The impulse to undo an edit you disagree with is understandable, but I wanted to make sure you're aware that the edit warring policy ↗ disallows repeated reversions even if they are justifiable.

All editors are expected to discuss content disputes on article talk pages ↗ to try to reach consensus ↗. If you are unable to agree&#32;at {{TALKPAGENAME:University of Pittsburgh}} ↗, please use one of the dispute resolution options ↗ to seek input from others. Using this approach instead of reverting can help you avoid getting drawn into an edit war. ''Re https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=University_of_Pittsburgh&diff=1233191263&oldid=1232429521.''.<!-- Template:uw-ewsoft --> VQuakr (talk) 20:27, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

:Even more concerning is the WP:CANVASS ↗ violation here ↗. Please adjust course promptly. VQuakr (talk) 20:29, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

template oweb



is a redirect for official website.Naraht (talk) 19:28, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

File mover granted



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Holiday Bling



{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|100px ↗|100px ↗}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Fraternity/Sorority Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For cheerfully sending pages from ''Baird's 20th edition'' whenever I need them and for fixing my various errors and mistakes without reproach.
|} Rublamb (talk) 19:49, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
:Awww! Thanks! What a nice surprise. Jax MN (talk) 18:58, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

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Citation of sources



Greetings. When editing a Wikipedia article to add a claim, like you did at List of hazing deaths in the United States ↗, you must cite reliable sources to back up your claim to abide by WP:VERIFIABILITY ↗. Simply putting your thoughts in a "ref" tag is not enough. For information on citing sources, see WP:CITE ↗ and WP:IC ↗. A list of reliable sources can be found at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources ↗. If you do not cite your sources, your edits may be reverted. TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 16:16, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Citation of sources



Hi @Jax MN - thanks for your e-mail. I prefer to keep all correspondence on-site so am replying here. I would agree that some Masonic sources may not be available online, but of course we need to have sources to support all claims.

I do delete claims that have citation needed when a claim does not seem true and I can find no evidence if it being citable, and especially delete them when the RS I can find online say the opposite, which does happen not infrequently as it relates to Masonic history.

You also note that many editors have extensive Masonic background knowledge. That's great. I'm a Mason myself and a member of the Scottish Rite and also very interested in Masonic history and its connection to broader trends.

You note that some of my changes are incorrect - happy to discuss which ones you feel are incorrect. That is never my goal. Of course, we have to generally defer to RS.

Jjazz76 (talk) 19:05, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

Sigma Lambda Beta ↗



@Jax MN: Though some brothers (and hence some chapters) have taken the liberty to advertise the fraternity as Multicultural, the national website still defines as "Latino-based fraternity with a multi-cultural membership."<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.sigmalambdabeta.com/ | title=Sigma Lambda Beta International Fraternity, Inc. - A MESSAGE FROM OUR NATIONAL CHAIRMAN | access-date=2025-02-11 | language=en-US}}</ref> The third reference keeps the national language.<ref name="auto">{{Cite web |title=Sigma Lambda Beta International Fraternity, Inc. – Multicultural Greek Council WSU |url=https://wsumgc.com/sigma-lambda-beta-international-fraternity-inc/ |access-date=2024-05-30 |language=en-US}}</ref>
I changed it to make it consistent with national and historical self-identification. The one reference that I took out now says "Multicultural Fraternity", having that it was I who added it in the first place, said also at the time "Latino-based...".
Should the wikiarticle be consistent with National website? Also, there has been no decision by the Fraternity's main legislative body to make such change. Coquidragon (talk) 15:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC)
:{{U|Coquidragon}}, we've dealt with this with other groups, and have a strong consensus on Short Descriptions. To summarize, when writing these we first identify the type of organization, whether it be a social/academic chapter, an exclusively ethnic or religious-affiliated chapter, or a multicultural group. Here, multicultural means that the fraternity or sorority is not ''exclusively'' restricted to Latino members, but maintains a strong Latino focus as its primary interest or affinity. All the organizations I know of (Black, Latino, Asian, etc.) now have bylaws that support membership by all 'races', though some chapters do not, in practice, have members of another heritage. The times where we have found a national to be race-exclusive are historical, thus these are former or merged groups, whose descriptions pre-date the 1970's era movement where all the national fraternities rescinded their race exclusions or exclusivities.
:Following the standard language order of adjectives or descriptions, we start broadly, and narrow down to the specific. Sigma Lambda Beta will typically caucus with other heritage-themed fraternities and sororities, versus a campuses' IFC or Panhel. --Like, they lead with "we are Latino-focused", rather than "we are a social fraternity" - regardless of what the next sentence is. While your national doesn't specifically call it out that way, the effect is the same. Remember, some campuses only have one association to corral all the Greek groups; but many others have three or four such organizations (IFC, Panhel, NPHC and MGC). Larger Greek systems place all heritage-based chapters into the local MGC, which does NOT imply that they must be part of the National Multicultural Greek Council ↗. We nevertheless find that, on most campuses, heritage-based groups tend to self-select into the local campus MGC because of ''shared interests''. Some may caucus or participate in two governing boards, like when a traditionally Black fraternity is a member of ''both'' the local IFC as well as their NPHC or MGC organizations at the school.
: Our language fits our consensus perspective, rather than following the national's specific language. I'll give you another example of why this is necessary for clarity: We track Professional fraternities as well as Honor societies. A few of these attempt to claim both adjectives, like "Mu Mu Mu is a Professional Honor fraternity which only accepts the top ten percent...". We all like to call ourselves high-achievers and good students, so 'honor' feels good as a nice word for our descriptions. But historically, fraternities were one or the other. All Professional fraternities think that Honor is a good thing, but from Wikipedia's perspective (managed by our Project group and our consensus) we label them as Professional, and may mention their pursuit of the top students and their efforts to honor alumni later in the body text. Jax MN (talk) 16:07, 2 July 2026 (UTC)
::@Jax MN: Yet, shouldn't the language fit the self identification of the organization as express in the National website (references)? SLB did not become a multicultural organization. 2 of its 18 founders were not Latino, yet that was and is still is the focus of the fraternity. This issue has been discussed ad nauseum internally, and yet the change to become a multicultural fraternity has never been approved. From the very beginning SLB has been a Latino-based fraternity with multicultural membership, especially taking into account that being Latino is not an ethnicity but a language, there been European Latinos, Afro Latinos, Native Latinos, Asian Latinos, etc. This language of "Multicultural fraternity" in a foreign imposition. --Coquidragon (talk) 00:54, 3 July 2026 (UTC)
::@Jax MN: I understand, but shouldn't the language be consistent with the National auto definition? Also, SLB did not become multicultural, since two of the 18 founders were not Latino. From the beginning and now still is a Latino focused fraternity, but with multicultural membership. Remember also that Latino is not an ethnicity, but based on a language. There are European Latinos, Asian Latinos, Native Latinos, Afro Latinos, etc. To be Latino is to be multicultural, though the opposite is not true. SLB is still Latino fraternity and, though it has been debated internally, the change to multicultural has never been approved.--Coquidragon (talk) 00:59, 3 July 2026 (UTC)
:::Interesting that your organization continues to discuss this issue, and has thus far avoided legislation to declare itself multicultural. In that, it appears you are consistent with many Hispanic / Latino, Asian, SE Asian and Black fraternities. Perhaps only a tenth of these segment-serving groups have specifically chosen to declare themselves multicultural to the point where they join the NMGC ↗.
:::Here, I think, are the ruling positions (the consensus opinions that determine the present situation):
:::# Wikipedia is a separate, independent voice, pursuing "encyclopedic" language - unbiased, accurate summary language.
:::# Editors who sign on to a particular Project group or interest typically are more-or-less involved in that topic, and often are experts in that specific category.
:::# We weigh our adherence to what such organizations say about themselves versus a desire for clarity and consistency for outside readers. Specific to SLB, that appears to be the source of tension. We are crafting language for broader readers who we believe should first know that SLB is open to all ethnicities, and that secondarily, should know that you veer toward higher awareness of that affinity, versus it being an obscure, historical factoid.
:::# NMGC groups lead with "multiculturalism" as an aim. Social / Academic fraternities and sororities lead with "Social" enjoyment and cohesiveness as their aim. The ethnic or religious focused groups may push (for example) their "Latino focus" to the forefront, ''even if they are not exclusively so.'' (Clearly, all these groups have other, supporting interests.)

::: In an example of this, whereas Alpha Epsilon Phi ↗ and Sigma Delta Tau ↗ are strongly Jewish in theme, marketing, culture and visibility, Delta Phi Epsilon ↗ and Phi Sigma Sigma ↗ have long distanced themselves from the expression of Jewishness in many aspects of their operations. To be clear, they acknowledge their roots and have pride in those roots, but were early adopters of a multicultural identity ''first'' and therefore brand themselves primarily as non-sectarian and open to all. Further, all four participate in campus Panhel associations. But here on Wikipedia, WE note them all as of Jewish student origin, and deal with the nuances in body text. The latter two, DPE and Phi Sigma Sigma perhaps may not even want to lead with that, though again, they are proud of their roots and aren't hiding anything. These are branding decisions. Rather than cut ten thin gradients of variation in how we should group these, we have chosen to limit the groupings to a few, for clarity. That is exactly what we have here, in our calling SLB "multicultural". The nuance should be in the body text. Jax MN (talk) 17:16, 3 July 2026 (UTC)