User Talk: Raven rs

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Hi Raven rs. Thank you for your work on Amenyseneb ↗. Another editor, North8000, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol ↗ and left the following comment:

{{Bq|1=Nice work}} {{Re|North8000}} thanks

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''North8000'' (talk) 18:20, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi

Hello Raven rs! I see that you are doing some work on Bronze Age sites in the Near East. You are doing a great job! I am also working in archaeological sites spanning all periods from the Bronze Age to recent history. May I ask what are you field of interest? So we could maybe collaborate and help each other in the future. Please @ping me with your response. '''Bolter21''' ''(talk to me)'' 17:41, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

:@Bolter21 thanks! you're doing a great job too! I'm mostly in the bronze age. I try to find the topics we know very little about... 50 % in Egypt and 50 % in the rest of the Mediterranean and Near East region... behind the scenes I focus a lot about chronologies between archaelogical phases. See my user page for some details. Sure, happy to collaborate! Raven rs (talk) 20:56, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

One Question

From your edit here ↗, Sobekhotep IV's highest attested year is his 9th Year. Was there a new discovery for this king that held his 9th regnal year? I had thought his highest attested date was his 8th year but that was based on Kim Ryholt's book on the SIP from 1997 which is now 27 years old. Of course, Ryholt thought that this king had a reign of 10 years minimum. Just curious, --Leoboudv (talk) 01:40, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

:Hi Leoboudv, thankh you for your message.
:In Wadi Hammamat, there was a stela dated to Year 9. See Ryholt 1997:349
:"18) Wadi Hammamat, Stela dated to year 9. Pr. loc. unknown. Bibl.: Debono, ASAE 51 (1951), 81-82, pl. 15; PM VII (1952), 332; Simpson, MDAIK 25 (1969), 154-158, pl. 7; Habachi, Fs Dunham (1981), 78 [6]; Malaise, SAK 9 (1981), 281."
:Egyptologists have qualified guesses :) Raven rs (talk) 05:45, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

PS: As an aside, I wrote this article on Dush, Egypt ↗ in January 2025 and managed to source some image from people from flickr for the Treasure of Dush.,,,and this other Article ↗ in 2024. But today with high post covid price inflation in Canada, I have less time for wikipedia. Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 01:40, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

:Great contribution. Extensive work. Raven rs (talk) 05:52, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I assume the stela...clearly bears Sobekhotep IV's cartouches I don't know why Ryholt did not stress this fact in his book--or maybe I did not read this part of his book more. But this is a minor detail. Sobekhotep IV's English wikipedia article reflects the controversy over whether Egypt was already divided in his reign as per the N. Moeller and G. Marouard seal evidence. I don't really accept this suggestion since Merneferre Ay later on is attested in both Lower and Upper Egypt...but AFTER him the 13th dynasty kings are really poorly attested. But the Dynasty 13 kings from Sobekhotep III--Neferhotep I---Sobekhotep IV were the most powerful kings of the 13th dynasty according to Ryholt and they ruled Before Merneferre Ay.

PS: I sourced the second and third images in Princess Neferuptah's article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neferuptah as you can see here ↗
and also these 2 quality images in Princess Mereret's article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mereret_(12th_Dynasty) and all 4 photos in king Amenemope's article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amenemope_(pharaoh) I used to ask people on flickr if they would agree to license an image freely on wikipedia and change the flickr license. Some people would agree and change the license, some people say No! and some people just ignore my flickr message. Such is life. Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 09:56, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

These are the last 100 image uploads ↗ by me on Wikimedia Commons which includes a new Coffin of Kamose, Sekhemkhet's treasure trove of gold bracellets ↗ (Sekhemkhet was the successor of Djoser), and two rare photos from Senusret II's pyramid which is at risk of collapse--according to the person who agreed to license the images freely. One enters the pyramid of Senusret II at your life! Also, the real diadem or crown of Tutankhamun which strangely was never uploaded on Commons before....and something for Amenemhat IV. The images are good enough for me. Free images of some ancient treasures are sometimes hard to get on Wikimedia Commons ↗ Goodnight from Canada, --Leoboudv (talk) 10:08, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

:Nice, yes get permission to images with copyright. Also try to find as much info about the item and put it under the "Attestations" which describes the items.
:There are many problems with the Middle Kingdom Chronology, I do not know where to begin because its mostly wrong at the start and the end. Egyptologists have their independent view of historic events unsynchronized with the Levant. Scholars argue over radiocarbon dating and have strong opinions sometimes disregarding all other evidence. Some scholars write 100 papers to make money. There are as many opinons about this period as there are scholars.
:The Second Intermediate Period was not a long period (150 years) with a long line of kings in succession as interperted fromt the Turin King List. It was a relatively short period of time where many kings ruler different estates and citites at the same time. There was a crisis in the order of succession. A matter of inheritnce from Amenemhat III. And major climate change that broght the MBA to an end. There was no "great king" until Ahmose I restored it. Raven rs (talk) 13:06, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

:You write: "Some scholars write 100 papers to make money....[and] Scholars argue over radiocarbon dating and have strong opinions sometimes disregarding all other evidence." One problem is Egyptological books are very expensive to buy since they are very specialised and there is only a small market for them sadly. It echoes to me the famous words "'''Publish or Perish'''" even if your theories don't agree with the evidence just to get a higher profile sadly and advance your career. Thanks for your information. You can use images on Wikimedia Commons for wikipedia anytime...but so can any site such as Facebook or a Newspaper or Magazine since the images are all licensed freely with no Non-Commercial restriction. Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 21:54, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Comm: Luckily, Google has a partial online copy of Ryholt's SIP book over here ↗ where pages 348-349 are available but page 350 is skipped and confirms your statement of Year 9 of Sobekhotep IV...which I never doubted. It is strange Ryholt never mentions the Year 6 date of this king. I understand now why I did not photocopy this section of Ryholt's work as it is mostly a list of attestations for several kings but this evidence strongly implies Sobekhotep IV ruled for 10+ years like Neferhotep I. Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 13:19, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

:Yes, you get to see some pages. I have the book myself. I would put his reign at 9 years at the end of Late 13th Dynasty (Transitional MB IIA/B-MB IIB1) followed by a king who ruled 4 years before this family-line collapses due to abrupt climate change, economic collapse, political turmoil, rival kings and civil war. Then follows what Ryholts calls "Abydos-Dynasty" which includes petty local kings Senebkay and 7 more tombs at Abydos. 17th dyn in Thebes. 15th dynasty in Tell el-Daba (replacing 14th dyn).

:Note that if you have made enought edits, you can use wikilibrary which gives you access to several academic sites with access to papers. Also several academic sites have limited free access. You can also see academia.edu etc. Raven rs (talk) 23:32, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for all your help. I have access to academia.edu but I doubt Ryholt will post this book on that site...only some of his articles. His book publisher would not be happy for such an important work! Best Wishes, --Leoboudv (talk) 01:21, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

you edit the same pages a lot

I have noticed that you Seem to make many edits to pages in a short amount of time which leads me to wonder, Are you aware you can preview your edit? because otherwise I have no idea why you make like 40 edits to page in a day. PharaohCrab (talk) 17:44, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

:It is my workflow going back and forth from sources and correcting/cleaning up texts. I also break up if I work on different parts of the article :) Raven rs (talk) 18:01, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
::ahh I see. PharaohCrab (talk) 18:23, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

Shoshenq III ↗

Dear Sir or Madam,

I don't know if you heard of this recent discovery that was mentioned on the EEF website in this Thursday's EEF News: https://luxortimes.com/major-tanis-discovery-reshapes-third-intermediate-period-burials/ and https://english.ahram.org.eg/News/557221.aspx Its 2025 and new discoveries are still being made in Egypt even in well established places like Tanis. I am sick and not well but if you wish, you can edit this king's wikipedia page to say he was reburied in Osorkon II ↗'s robbed Tanite tomb with the evidence of the ushabtis.

By the way, I knew of Shoshenq C from Kitchen's TIPE books but never heard that he was renamed Shoshenq Q ↗--a son of Osorkon I.

Finally, when Manetho states that 3 kings ruled at Tanis around Takelot I and Osorkon II, its quite likely that Shoshenq II was not Shoshenq I since his prenomen--Heqakheperre--is unique and totally different than Hedjkheperre. All his major objects have the prenomen Heqakheperre. Similiarly, Tutkheperre Shoshenq ↗ would be the second of Manetho's 3 Kings since he is now separately attested at Abydos in Upper Egypt and now at the Temple of Bubastis in Lower Egypt. Both these 2 kings have unique prenomens which suggest they date to the first half of Dynasty 22. I don't really think Maatkheperre Shoshenq exists in real life.

Please feel free to update Shoshenq III's wikipedia article if you wish. Goodnight. Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 15:14, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

:@Leoboudv Hi Leo, sorry to hear you're sick. I will look into this news and see what I can do. If you have a profile at academia.edu, please send a hello there at https://uio.academia.edu/GlennIsaksen. Hope you recover. Best, Raven rs (talk) 14:40, 23 November 2025 (UTC)

The EEF ↗ is free to be a member. Just click on "EEF Application Form" and Email your name, any degrees and Email address to AK Eyma, the EEF moderator. There is an EEF News every week on Thursday plus breaking news Emails for new discoveries. I prefer to use a yahoo or gmail Email address.

Best, --Leoboudv (talk) 15:21, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

If you subscribe to EEF, you always get the latest Egyptian discoveries by Email. EEF is free....but of course it is your decision. Just Email the moderator AK Eyma with the instructions I gave you. EEF is also confidential and most professional Egyptologists including Nicholas Reeves are on it. Best...and I have to rest now, --Leoboudv (talk) 00:26, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

Citations needed

You made a long series of edits to Amenemhat III ↗ without citing a single source for them. Content like this ↗ requires adequate in-line sourcing. This ↗ and this ↗ look near entirely like WP:NOR ↗: He was near 70 according to whom? He suddenly fell ill according to whom? He died of natural causes according to whom? Please go and put adequate citations to reliable source supporting the material that was added to the article. Mr rnddude (talk) 22:20, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

:Hi @Mr rnddude. Thank you for your feedback. I have made a series of edits primarily focused on cosmetic improvements and restructuring existing content into a more chronological and topical order. In reorganizing these categories, some text was added to ensure a natural narrative flow from top to bottom. Regarding the specific points on Amenemhat III, I felt it was essential to clarify that his body has never been found in the intro before discussing the pyramid sections. I did make some synthesis and deductions of published material. I have now made changed the intro under "Burial" with references. Please look it over to see if you're more satisfied. Raven rs (talk) 23:33, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

Edit summaries

Please you use them for your edits when possible. It is helpful for tracking changes. Thanks. Ploversegg (talk) 16:23, 14 April 2026 (UTC)

:Hi @Ploversegg. Thanks for your feedback. I'll try to use summaries more often. Raven rs (talk) 17:14, 14 April 2026 (UTC)