User Talk: Katzrockso

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Hello '''Katzrockso'''! The thread you created at the Teahouse ↗, {{tq|Searching for sources}}, has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days.

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A barnstar for you!

{| style="background-color: var(--background-color-success-subtle, #fdffe7); border: 1px solid var(--border-color-success, #fceb92); color: var(--color-base, #202122);"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | 100px ↗
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Citation Barnstar'''
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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Good observations. Keep up the good work! <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml"><b style="color:#060">7&6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>)</span> 13:20, 14 November 2025 (UTC)
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Ghazi Nara

Hello Katzrockso. I noticed you contested my proposed deletion of Ghazi Nara ↗ a couple days ago. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but I would have appreciated it if you left a message at my talk page. I was wondering if you were still looking for sources for the article, because if you were unable to find any, I plan on nominating it for deletion. Chess enjoyer (talk) 09:36, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

:<small>{{ping|Katzrockso}} pinging you, as its been almost a day and you're currently active. Chess enjoyer (talk) 10:36, 18 November 2025 (UTC)</small>
::Hi, feel free to nominate it for deletion. If I had found sources, I no longer have them in my browser anymore and I can't recall what I ended up finding. @Chess enjoyer Katzrockso (talk) 10:38, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

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I was wondering if you have any knowledge on finding sources for this?

Thanks for responding to me on USAir Flight 499, but I think it would make that article notable. I am wondering if you could maybe try to find sources on Vasp Flight 780? Zaptain United (talk) 03:33, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

:@Zaptain United
:I couldn't find too much on VASP Flight 780. I'm assuming this is in reference to Draft:VASP Flight 780 ↗? I'm not an expert in searching in Portuguese, but there are some sources on the Portuguese Wikipedia at pt:Voo VASP Cargo 780 ↗, but it looks like that is how the English Wikipedia was started. There is this recent article https://ac24horas.com/2025/05/05/aviacao-no-acre-completa-89-anos-com-pioneirismo-e-acidentes-emblematicos/ ↗ about the crash in reference to the history of aviation in Acre, Brazil ↗.
:I did find this book https://www.abul.org.br/biblioteca/168.pdf ↗ that covers a number of Brazilian plane accidents, though, but this crash wasn't mentioned. Katzrockso (talk) 03:59, 19 November 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for your effort. I appreciate you trying to find sources. Zaptain United (talk) 03:35, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

Collegiate

I appreciate the compliment on ARE. I feel the same way about you. We have worked well together on a number of things where we agree and disagree. And I have enjoyed that, and hope to be a model for others on here. :) ← Metallurgist (talk) 04:57, 19 November 2025 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi Katzrockso. Thank you for your work on Moses Ashworth ↗. Another editor, Mariamnei, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol ↗ and left the following comment:

{{Bq|1=Nice start!}}

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{code|<nowiki>{{Re|</nowiki>Mariamnei<nowiki>}}</nowiki>}}. <small>(Message delivered via the Page Curation ↗ tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)</small>

Mariamnei (talk) 09:38, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

White Corolla case ↗

It's been 8 weeks since you removed the proposed deletion tag. Please add at least one reliable source. Bearian (talk) 01:31, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @Bearian, I see that there is already a source in the external links section. While it is standard Wikipedia citation practice and required that sources are provided in-line for BLP articles (and indeed that would be the first start for cleaning up this article), WP:BLPPROD ↗ requires that there are no external links in the article to delete the article. I added another citation in-line to assuage any concerns, but there were some others I found. Katzrockso (talk) 01:50, 21 November 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. Bearian (talk) 01:55, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

Regarding Arabic Translations and Nisba 3O

Hi, this is regarding the Third Opinion you provided

The talk-page section was closed before I had a chance to request some further clarification, so I’m posting my previously written message here instead. Apologies for the extra hassle.

------

'From my understanding, Katzrockso suggested that the resolution would be to remove Somali from the lead and include both Somali and Arabic in the footnote, as both languages are closely related to the subject of this page. Whether Arabic must be considered 'native' for inclusion is irrelevant. This would also help avoid 'cluttering' - his words, not mine - which is true. Can you please confirm, Katzrockso? Regarding the nisba, I’ve already said that I will respect whichever opinion is given in the third opinion request and will not object to it. I still believe it is not WP:UNDUE ↗, but I will accept the outcome regardless'

CqHydra (talk) 02:18, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

:TL;DR - could you clarify whether your third opinion meant that both Somali and Arabic should be included in a footnote, rather than having one, the other, or both appear in the lead section? CqHydra (talk) 02:20, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
::Originally I thought that the Isaaq tribe was significantly associated with both Arabic and Somali languages, which would have warranted transforming the names to a footnote. However, upon reviewing more sources I did not find evidence for substantial association of Isaaq ↗ with the Arabic language, so I object to changes to introduce the Arabic language version into the lead of the artic. Katzrockso (talk) 02:23, 22 November 2025 (UTC)

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BFDI: List of Characters

Now that Battle for Dream Island is on Wikipedia, I think you should add the list of characters. They do it on TV series and movies all the time, so you should do it for BFDI as well. PowerRanger200 (talk) 16:38, 23 November 2025 (UTC)

Edit request

Hi, The current page of 2026 Tamil Nadu Legislative Assembly election ↗ is getting increasingly promotional tone ↗, especially the recent additions today in "key issues" section have more unnecessary details. They also removed maintenance templates. I request you to edit the page to align with Wikipedia policies, especially WP:NPOV ↗. Thank you. Anbarasan1523 (talk) 16:32, 25 November 2025 (UTC)

Renaming of Southern Kaduna genocide page

Greetings @Katzrockso. I have moved the page Southern Kaduna genocide ↗ back to its original title. Please initiate a discussion before moving the page if you have a reason why it should be moved to the name you gave it. Thanks. Kambai Akau (talk) 16:04, 27 November 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, @Kambai Akau, I did give a reason for why the page is named: no serious scholars claim that those events are genocide from my research on this topic. Katzrockso (talk) 18:49, 27 November 2025 (UTC)
::Sorry, I'm seeing this reply late. At the end of the discussion on the talk page, whatever the outcome is, I'm fine with it. But I actually wish it remains with its original title. Kambai Akau (talk) 04:19, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Could you help me find anymore sources on FedEx Express Flight 087?

I am working on trying to make this article a good article. I have a personal connection to this article since it was the one that got me into Wikipedia editing. Could you possibly check if there are anymore sources on this? I am using all the reliable sources that I can find on this accident in this good article attempt. Zaptain United (talk) 04:09, 28 November 2025 (UTC)

:@Zaptain United FedEx Express Flight 087 ↗ this article?
:I found this mention of the incident in the book Country Capitalism https://books.google.com/books?id=QYOREAAAQBAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&lpg=PA133&dq=%22fedex%20plane%22%20subic&pg=PA133#v=onepage&q=%22fedex%20plane%22%20subic&f=false ↗ discussing the incident in the broader context of the company FedEx ↗, you could include this information in the background section perhaps discussing the company. There's a video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEEDdHjcVI0 ↗ from the AP. Katzrockso (talk) 04:03, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::Yes, that is the article. But what page in the book does it mention the accident? The video seems to be about a completely unrelated overrun of an Airbus. Thanks for trying to find more sources. Zaptain United (talk) 04:14, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
:::It's on page 133 near the bottom. At least I believe it is this incident, I would have to check the citation given to verify.
:::Good catch on that AP news that was from June 1999. Katzrockso (talk) 06:24, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::::Could you check if there are possibly any sources in Filipino since it happened in the Philippines. Zaptain United (talk) 02:45, 1 December 2025 (UTC)
:::::Could you also check if there are anymore sources on this runway overrun including flight number? I am considering making an article on this.
:::::PAL plane crashes at Manila airport, all 147 safe - UPI Archives ↗
:::::Memories of Old Manila & Beyond | Do You also remember, another Plane, this time a Philippine Airlines Airbus overshoots the runway up to the West Service Road going to Merville, while... | Facebook ↗
:::::<nowiki>Plane Spotters PH | [Throwback Accident - 1987 ↗ | Facebook</nowiki>] Zaptain United (talk) 05:10, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::::::Hello, are going to reply to my request? I am fine if you say no and decline. Zaptain United (talk) 03:15, 18 December 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Hi, I'm sorry I missed those comments somehow or glanced over them too quickly to realize you were asking about another incident. When I get home I can take a look. Katzrockso (talk) 03:16, 18 December 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Alright I understand Zaptain United (talk) 03:21, 18 December 2025 (UTC)
::::::@Zaptain United I didn't find anything additional about this newspaper crash on newspapers.com. There were 2 short stories, but nothing more substantial than the UPI report [indeed one of the newspaper reports directly cites UPI]. There is one more UPI article here https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/09/19/PAL-Airbus-jetliner-makes-emergency-landing-in-Manila/8087559022400/ ↗.
::::::In the comments there, someone posted a picture of a clipping from The Manila Bulletin [Sept. 20, 1987 Sunday edition]. You might be able to ask at WP:RX ↗ for a copy of the full newspaper article. I also saw this AP news report ↗. I also saw on this Facebook post https://www.facebook.com/groups/1458966531343377/?multi_permalinks=1862773240962702 ↗ that someone posted a clipping of The Philippine Daily Inquirer 24 September 1987 report on this incident.
::::::Unfortunately, I do not think that this crash passes WP:NEVENT ↗, as there was no lasting coverage or impact. You might be able to include this plane crash in another article, however. I'm not sure what lists there are, but you might be able to make a list of plane crashes that could include this plane crash in it. Katzrockso (talk) 03:29, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Did you check any Filipino sources? Also, this accident happens at Ninoy Aquino International Airport ↗. Could you check if this article mentions this accident in any way?
:::::::https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/iq/210041-list-naia-runways-mishaps-accidents/ Zaptain United (talk) 03:37, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I did find this source about this accident.
::::::::https://www.berkshireeagle.com/philippines-airbus-crash-1987/image_694d76b4-17c3-11ec-8baf-139dba21102e.html Zaptain United (talk) 03:40, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::That appears to just be an image with a caption. I didn't find any corresponding article. The incident was briefly mentioned in this Congressional report https://www.google.com/books/edition/Annual_Report_to_Congress/IFtqYvgIdqsC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Philippine+Airlines+A300+Airbus+1987+manila&pg=PA66&printsec=frontcover ↗.
:::::::::I found what I believe is a mention of this incident in a 1988 edition of the Far Eastern Economic Review, in a piece titled "PAL's not so friendly skies". The clipping is here https://books.google.com/books?id=t1yuAAAAIAAJ&q=Philippine+Airlines+A300+Airbus+september+1987+manila&dq=Philippine+Airlines+A300+Airbus+september+1987+manila&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=1&printsec=frontcover&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiRiL_x3siRAxXRMdAFHRHDFxkQ6AF6BAgJEAM ↗, but the whole article is not easily viewable. You might be able to ask for it at WP:RX ↗.
:::::::::I did find that this incident is mentioned at List of Philippine Airlines accidents and incidents ↗ already.
:::::::::@Zaptain United Katzrockso (talk) 03:49, 19 December 2025 (UTC)
::::::::I do not have access to Filipino newspapers and I am not aware of any online newspaper archives for Filipino newspapers. You might be able to ask at Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines ↗ for further information on how to access their newspaper archives, as this is a region I have done almost no research on.
::::::::The article you linked is available on archive.org https://web.archive.org/web/20180821105416/https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/iq/210041-list-naia-runways-mishaps-accidents/ ↗, but does not mention the September 1987 crash. However, given that Rappler appears to be a reliable source and mentions "NAIA runway mishaps over the years", you might be able to create a list of runway accidents at this airport (it conceivably passes WP:NLIST ↗) or perhaps include a short list at the article Ninoy Aquino International Airport ↗.
::::::::@Zaptain United Katzrockso (talk) 03:43, 19 December 2025 (UTC)

Nora Benavidez bio

Hi Katzrockso, thanks for the message. I appreciate you pointing out the problems. The text is my own summary of what the sources say, and you were right about the links. I went through all of them, fixed the dead links, and replaced the one that was paywalled. All reference links are now correct. Much appreciation! Vivowrites (talk) 05:57, 29 November 2025 (UTC)

:@Vivowrites The Strait Times article still doesn't work and I don't find any article under that title. Katzrockso (talk) 01:39, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

TO

Hi, @Katzrockso; Are you still willing to provide a TO on the LVCM ↗ article? I know the argument was long, so, to simplify, I think all that is being asked of you at this point is to decide between my proffered diff ↗ or having the page remain where it is, currently. Any work beyond that will likely require a separate TO and/ot dispute resolution. I apologize for nudging you like this, but it had been over twenty-four hours; I'm more than happy to post a new TO request if you're not feeling up to it. Regardless, I appreciate your time! '''MWFwiki''' (talk) 03:13, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

:Hi, I apologize, I thought I had subscribed to that conversation, but I didn't. @MWFwiki I will review the conversation again Katzrockso (talk) 03:27, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
::No worries at all, thanks again! '''MWFwiki''' (talk) 03:42, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

A Barnstar for You!

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:top;" | </noinclude>The Third Opinion Award|100px ↗
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Third Opinion Award ↗'''
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|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" |{{#if: I deeply and sincerely appreciate your assistance and hope to work with you again! Cheers|I deeply and sincerely appreciate your assistance and hope to work with you again! Cheers}} — '''MWFwiki''' (talk) 08:20, 30 November 2025 (UTC)
|}

:Thanks, I appreciate it! Katzrockso (talk) 08:23, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

48px|left|alt=|link= ↗Your feedback is requested  at '''Talk:The Age of Disclosure'''  on a "All RFCs" request for comment ↗. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service ↗ subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name ↗.</small> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> <small>(replacing <span class="plainlinks">Yapperbot ↗</span>)</small> SodiumBot (botop|talk ↗) 21:31, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

Yet again...

HI, @Katzrockso; I'll keep this brief. The TA is re-adding content that you explicitly removed. Could you please revert the LVCM article to this diff ↗ — if they revert your reversion I'll take it to dispute. Thanks! '''MWFwiki''' (talk) 05:46, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

:This is WP:CAN ↗. MWFwiki has made 27 edits to the article in the past day. I have made a total of FIVE. This user is purely trying to push his pro-police agenda using all methods possible, and has now stopped to trying to recruit others to his position. ~2025-37688-98 ↗ (talk) 06:04, 1 December 2025 (UTC)

A barnstar for your efforts

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | 100px ↗
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your work on splitting and expanding Gender-critical feminism by country ↗. Awarded by Cdjp1 (talk) 14:59, 1 December 2025 (UTC)
|}

Fourth Opinion?

Hi, Katzrockso; Apologies for bothering you so soon, again. I have a small favor to ask of you. I answered a request for a third-opinion. One of the editors is in disagreement with my opinion. In order to avoid escalation between the two involved editors, and given that the article is relatively niche, I offered to the editor in disagreement to seek a fourth opinion, '''to which they agreed'''. I specified that I had you in-mind as I found your assistance with my content dispute to be fair and balanced and I don't feel that anyone could claim that you are anything but neutral. If you're willing to assist, allow me to lay-out the dispute at its most basic level:

Media Mender feels that a specific show should be added to the List of programmes broadcast by Sony SAB ↗ article. Media Mender prefers the current state of the page.

CNMall41 disputes the addition, asserting that only "original programming" should be added. CNMall41 prefers this ↗ diff.

I opined that the show should be added. I further opined that the show's addition would be ''better'' disputed by asserting that its sourcing is not reliable. Additional sources have since been found/added and Media Mender has since claimed consensus and re-added the content. Full discussion may be read here ↗. '''MWFwiki''' (talk) 21:09, 1 December 2025 (UTC)
:To clarify, I did not agree. I just didn't offer an objection. As stated, it will likely be moot as I am going to either propose a merge to the main page or a move to an "original programming" list where inclusion criteria could be discussed. Being that I did not revert the OP's ONUS bludgeon, it would also be moot as their preferred version is there. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:14, 1 December 2025 (UTC)
:Hi @MWFwiki, thanks for asking. Unfortunately, I already saw that discussion when I checked 3O and am not familiar enough with the relevant policies and guidelines to form an opinion. Sorry if that's not helpful, but I reread the discussion and still don't have a strongly formed opinion. Katzrockso (talk) 01:07, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
::@Katzrockso No worries; I'll let them settle it between themselves. Cheers '''MWFwiki''' (talk) 01:11, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

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Fraternal birth order and male sexual orientation ↗

Hi Katzrockso. You tagged this article with {{tl|Close paraphrasing}} but didn't provide an URL. Do you happen to remember what this article is paraphrasing from?<span id="Tenshi_Hinanawi:1764807463942:User_talkFTTCLNKatzrockso" class="FTTCmt"> — Tenshi! (Talk page) 00:17, 4 December 2025 (UTC)</span>

:Sorry, I do recall this sentence ({{tq|The fraternal birth order effect has been observed in places such as Brazil, Canada, Finland, Iran, Italy, The Netherlands, Samoa, Spain, Turkey, the United Kingdom, and the United States}}) being very close to a source I had found @Tenshi Hinanawi, but it was a broader issue across the article. I was working on rewriting this article, but lost motivation. Katzrockso (talk) 00:26, 4 December 2025 (UTC)

GMO and pesticide topics

link=|25px|alt=Information icon ↗ You have recently made edits related to genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed. This is a standard message to inform you that genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed is a designated contentious topic. Additionally, editors are not allowed to make more than 1 revert on the same page within 24 hours in this topic. This message <em>does <strong>not</strong> imply that there are any issues with your editing</em>. For more information about the contentious topics system, please see Wikipedia:Contentious topics ↗.  KoA (talk) 17:05, 5 December 2025 (UTC)

:Hi Katzrockso, like the template says, this isn't implying any wrongdoing. When I see someone new come into the topic area, I just like to make sure people are aware that they're getting into a Contentious Topic so they aren't blindsided by some of the expectations. Most of it is centered around WP:1RR ↗ and getting consensus for new changes when disputed rather than reinserting them, avoiding WP:ASPERSIONS ↗, etc.
:I also want to be clear that I hope none of my comments came across as short towards you. We all just got off of very long contentious content discussion, so most of my comments are moreso addressing the general state the article reached, how we got there, and trying to keep things stable for awhile. KoA (talk) 17:06, 5 December 2025 (UTC)

RfC - Airport destination lists

Hi, for your information, as you were involved in the previous discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Airport destination lists ↗ or the RfC on consensus of WP:DESTNOT ↗ at WT:NOT ↗, I wanted to let you know that the discussed broader RfC has been opened at WP:VPP#RfC - The inclusion of destination lists in Airport articles ↗. If you wish to contribute, please feel free. Many thanks! <span class="nowrap"><span style="color: RebeccaPurple">Danners430</span> <sub>tweaks made ↗</sub></span> 21:09, 7 December 2025 (UTC)

Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

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:Funny given that I was already tagged there. Katzrockso (talk) 04:47, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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A kitten for you!

left|150px ↗
I know we often have differences of opinion at AfD but I very much respect your work and skill at finding sources. Thanks for the sockpuppet check there as well.

PARAKANYAA (talk) 06:13, 17 December 2025 (UTC)
<br style="clear: both;"/>

:Thank you! As I just noted on your talk page, the editor was confirmed as a sockpuppet and blocked. I struck all the comments in the AfD. Katzrockso (talk) 06:15, 17 December 2025 (UTC)

Monsanto

Thank you for your recent editing to this topic area, which has been sorely in need of fresh eyes for some time. You have done an excellent job of making cogent arguments grounded in WP:PAG ↗ and appropriate edits to the relevant articles. When others have disagreed and accused you of wrong-doing, you have wisely kept your cool. Kudos! You may find my welcome ↗ to {{u|Nosferattus}}--who also recently began editing in this topic area and was met with immediate opposition--to be of some help.
{{pb}}
In that advice, I had said, "In my experience, when it feels like non-involved editors would see the problem, a simple neutrally-worded WP:RfC ↗ will end the log-jam. IMHO it is the best way to get fresh eyes on a problem like that you are experiencing." Your choice to bring the sourcing question to WP:RS/N ↗ was wise, accomplishing the same goal. Thank you for your perseverance. --David Tornheim (talk) 09:19, 18 December 2025 (UTC)

File:When causes interact.png listed for discussion

30px|left ↗ A file that you uploaded or altered, :File:When causes interact.png ↗, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion ↗. Please see the '''discussion''' ↗ to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you.  <span style="color:#8a7500">Chaotic <span style="color:#9e5cb1">Enby</span></span> (talk · contribs ↗) 06:02, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

:@Chaotic Enby I nominated it for speedy deletion, if you can do that and not waste the time at FfD. Katzrockso (talk) 06:59, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

Could you check to see if there are sources?

Thanks for your previous efforts on my last request. I appreciate you trying. These articles were redirected at AFD. They are both fatal accidents and I want to see if I could restore them with enough sources

1972 Thandwe Burma Airways Douglas C-47 crash ↗

Ethiopian Air Lines Flight 372 ↗ Zaptain United (talk) 16:09, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

:A contemporary AP news report is all I could find. https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-blade/187170710/ ↗.
:For the second one, I found a few contemporary newspaper reports (https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-montreal-star/187171245/ ↗ https://www.newspapers.com/article/chicago-tribune/187171172/ ↗). There was also a court case in 1963 https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Southwestern_Reporter/i8I2AAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22Ethiopian+Airlines%22+crash+%22Thomas+P.+Hallock%22&dq=%22Ethiopian+Airlines%22+crash+%22Thomas+P.+Hallock%22&printsec=frontcover ↗. There is a short mention here https://books.google.com/books?id=KBmGpaD36cMC&newbks=0&printsec=frontcover&pg=PA62&dq=%22Thomas+P.+Hallock%22+addis&hl=en&source=newbks_fb#v=onepage&q=%22Thomas%20P.%20Hallock%22%20addis&f=false ↗ in "Encyclopedia of African Airlines".
:I don't think this coverage is enough to make these events notable.
:@Zaptain United Katzrockso (talk) 21:37, 20 December 2025 (UTC)

Happy Holidays!

<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:#FF4646; background-color:#F6F0F7; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:7px; border-radius:1em; box-shadow:.1em .1em .5em rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.75); box-shadow:.1em .1em .5em light-dark(rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.75), rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.75));;" class="plainlinks">217px|left ↗190px|right ↗217px|left ↗301px|center ↗
'''Hello Katzrockso:''' Enjoy the '''holiday season ↗''' and '''winter solstice ↗''' if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, Iljhgtn (talk) 18:31, 24 December 2025 (UTC)
center|500px ↗{{paragraph break}}
</div>
<div style="padding-left: 2em; margin-top: 1em; font-size: 88%; font-style: italic">Spread the WikiLove; use {{tls|Season's Greetings}} to send this message</div>{{-}} Iljhgtn (talk) 18:31, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

December music

{{User QAIbox
| image = Red leaves wih frost, Ehrenbach.jpg
| image_upright = 0.8
| bold = story · music · places
}}
Thank you for coming to my talk with a question, - I'm sorry that I confused your nomination with another one when I replied there. No, no worries, nothing happened with your nom, it's waiting for someone to promote it to a "prep"! The process is copied to the article talk, - keep an eye on it. - Laughter for Christmas: enjoy the season! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:25, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

:OK, makes sense! I didn't see it on the Template talk:Did you know#Nominations ↗ page so I was confused it had gotten lost in some limbo or something. Good to know that isn't the case @Gerda Arendt
:Happy holidays to you too! Katzrockso (talk) 17:42, 25 December 2025 (UTC)
:: It's now in Template talk:Did you know/Approved ↗. Just leave the nomination on your watchlist, and some day it will be promoted to a prep. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:45, 25 December 2025 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

48px|left|alt=|link= ↗Your feedback is requested  at '''Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Replace NEWLLM'''  on a "Wikipedia policies and guidelines" request for comment ↗. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service ↗ subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name ↗.</small> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> <small>(replacing <span class="plainlinks">Yapperbot ↗</span>)</small> SodiumBot (botop|talk ↗) 13:30, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Could you check if there are anymore sources on this accident? I plan on making it a article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:2001_MK_Airlines_Boeing_747_crash

I have found 15 sources so far and have linked all of them on the draft's talk page. Could you check if there are anymore? Thanks for giving me sources on the previous questions by the way. Zaptain United (talk) 23:18, 1 January 2026 (UTC)

:Hello, are you going to reply? If you don't want me asking for sources on your talk page anymore, I will leave you alone. Zaptain United (talk) 03:45, 23 January 2026 (UTC)
::Hi, sorry I didn't respond. I think I looked into this at the time you asked, but I didn't find anything and got distracted before I responded. Let me take another look.
::@Zaptain United Katzrockso (talk) 06:46, 23 January 2026 (UTC)
:::There was a brief mention of this crash in 2004 when another Boeing-747 crashed https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-ottawa-citizen/189590111/ ↗ https://www.newspapers.com/article/niagara-falls-review/189590123/ ↗, but nothing particularly substantive. Katzrockso (talk) 06:57, 23 January 2026 (UTC)
::::Is there a way to access newspaper.com for free? I got the message "You've reached your 5-article limit." Zaptain United (talk) 17:21, 23 January 2026 (UTC)
:::::Try in an incognito tab or another browser. You might also be able to archive those urls on archive.is or archive.org/web and then access it that way.
::::: You should also be able to request a newspapers.com membership through WP:The Wikipedia Library ↗ (the form is here https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/applications/apply/26/ ↗). I have been a paying subscriber for a number of years, but I know of a few people who got access there.
:::::@Zaptain United Katzrockso (talk) 18:03, 23 January 2026 (UTC)

DYK for Sweet Sulphur Springs

{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|image class=skin-invert
|text = On 3 January 2026 ↗, '''Did you know ↗''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''Sweet Sulphur Springs ↗''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that the '''Sweet Sulphur Springs ↗''' hotel was famous for the supposed healing powers of its mineral waters?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Sweet Sulphur Springs ↗. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page <small>(here's how, Sweet Sulphur Springs ↗)</small>, and the hook may be added to the statistics page ↗ after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it ↗.
}}<nowiki> </nowiki>&spades;PMC&spades; (talk) ↗ 00:02, 3 January 2026 (UTC)
{{User QAIbox
| image = Hazel in bloom near Leine, Döhren.jpg
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}}
Thank you for the article, and congrats to the DYK! Happy new year! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:21, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

Thank you for the detective work for Marie Engle ↗! - Look for Wind of Change ↗ in music, and for vacation in places. The story is about a unique Bach cantata ↗, a 2013 DYK, and relates to a current DYK nom ↗. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:36, 31 January 2026 (UTC)

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Feedback

Hi! I read your comments and also appreciate your contributions on Tri Dao ↗. That said, I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask for your opinion. I do not have dozens of pending drafts, and I occasionally create articles from scratch.

You mentioned that the draft has many issues. Would you mind sharing those with me? I would like to understand, objectively, what the specific issues are. I believe the subject is notable, but I want to know if there is anything else in the article that needs attention. For instance, I did not add the authority boxes at the end. That said, I would appreciate clarity on what exactly needs to be fixed here. How am I supposed to know if I do not ask?

I have added the appropriate infobox, and I do not believe the text is promotional or otherwise inappropriate. For reference, here is first page I previously created about an academic, Venus Seunga Jin ↗. WestwoodHights573 (talk) 04:59, 8 January 2026 (UTC)

:@Katzrockso I made some more edits to the intro here Tri Dao ↗ and would greatly appreciate any suggestions as to what should be included in an article about a professor when you have the time. I have edited someone's else article in the past, and it looks like this now, and this is after my edit, it was not in the best shape. Rita Gunther McGrath ↗. It was not even included she was a director, I added that. WestwoodHights573 (talk) 17:43, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion

link=|25px|alt=Information icon ↗ There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard ↗ regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. (feel free to delete this once seen) RecardedByzantian (talk) 09:41, 8 January 2026 (UTC)

:Why didn't you try going through the typical dispute resolution procedures @RecardedByzantian? I doubt that AN will do much, this is basically a content issue. Katzrockso (talk) 10:47, 8 January 2026 (UTC)

Uw-npa2

25px|alt=Information icon ↗ Please do not attack ↗ other editors. Comment on ''content'', not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool ↗ and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. <span style="text-shadow:#000 0em 0em 1em"><span style="color:#6a0dad">   ▶ I am Grorp ◀ </span></span> 03:14, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

:Nothing in my comment was directed at a contributor @Grorp. Thanks Katzrockso (talk) 03:15, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

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Deletion of well-sourced content

Please do not delete well-sourced information, as you did at Murder of Wu Shuoyan ↗]. See the on-going RSN discussion ↗. Feoffer (talk) 13:41, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

:@Feoffer I am well aware of that RSN discussion. The content in question is from a 25 year old article, is of the opinion of one scholar (so should be attributed if included), is not directly relevant to Introvigne (since the publication in question was not a CESNUR publication, but a respected Oxford University Press ↗). We don't add unrelated criticisms of a person to every mention of their work, this is an obvious SYNTH issue. Katzrockso (talk) 14:16, 12 January 2026 (UTC)
::Also the proper place for this discussion is the articles talk page rather than my own talk page Katzrockso (talk) 14:29, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

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RfC closure

Unrelated to the Frankfurt discussion - do you know of a way to get some eyes on an RfC closure? A fellow editor requested the closure of the VPP RfC last year, and it's still extant... <span class="nowrap"><span style="color: RebeccaPurple">Danners430</span> <sub>tweaks made ↗</sub></span> 17:42, 18 January 2026 (UTC)

:@Danners430
:Other than WP:Closure requests ↗ or WP:Administrator's noticeboard ↗, not really. If it's been on WP:CR ↗ for a while, you can ask for additional eyes at WP:AN ↗ but that's not particularly common. Katzrockso (talk) 19:27, 18 January 2026 (UTC)

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Could you check if there are more sources on Widerøe Flight 836?

I just want to check if I can make an article on the 1989 near crash. There is information about the incident in the Widerøe Flight 839 ↗ final report starting on page 30.

https://www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/2020-07/.pdf

https://www.flynytt.no/vaeroy-ulykken-63-sekunder-som-endret-norsk-luftfart/132644 Zaptain United (talk) 16:18, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

:That first link does not work for me.
:That there was an entire National Geographic episode on it is very good, as well as this source. I would say that this near crash is very likely notable due to those sources (flyntt.no, NatGeo), but it would help if you could describe what's in the other source.
:@Zaptain United. Katzrockso (talk) 17:25, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
::The other source is the final report for Wideroe Flight 839 and it has 2 pages of information on the near crash starting on page 30. You can go on the article for that crash, go check on the final report, and skip to page 30. I am asking you if you can find another source for the incident since I want more than 3 sources. Zaptain United (talk) 17:35, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

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DYK for Marie Engle

{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|image class=skin-invert
|text = On 24 February 2026 ↗, '''Did you know ↗''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''Marie Engle ↗''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''Marie Engle ↗''' ''(pictured)'' was one of the earliest operatic singers to be recorded on rare Bettini cylinders ↗?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Marie Engle ↗. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page <small>(here's how, Marie Engle ↗)</small>, and the hook may be added to the statistics page ↗ after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to nominate it ↗.
}} <span style="background:#FF0;font-family:Rockwell Extra Bold"><u style="color:#00F">Laun</u><u style="color:#00F">chba</u><u style="color:#00F">ller</u> ↗</span> 00:02, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

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The Way of the Warrior (TV series)

Good job finding the one source. Unless one of us finds two more, I still don't think it's notable. I found jack squat on GBooks and nothing more on newspapers.com than what you already found. <span style="color:green">'''Ten Pound Hammer'''</span> • <sup>(What did I screw up now?)</sup> 14:16, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

:@TenPoundHammer On the talk page I put some additional sources I found and ideas for further expanding the article. Given that newspapers.com coverage is not complete and that it sparked a book as well, there is good enough reason to believe that sources WP:NEXIST ↗ and are not easily accessible online. Katzrockso (talk) 16:04, 4 March 2026 (UTC)
::My bad, I didn't see that. Seriously, good work. I'm trying to be more proactive in acknowledging when other editors find sources that I didn't. <span style="color:green">'''Ten Pound Hammer'''</span> • <sup>(What did I screw up now?)</sup> 16:07, 4 March 2026 (UTC)
:::No problem. newspapers.com can be difficult to trove through and I have too much experience with that. Katzrockso (talk) 16:09, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

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Quote

{{tq|A terribly subjective error of judgment, sometimes I feel like not writing on the English Wikipedia because I almost always find myself in surreal situations bordering on the ridiculous and the painful.}} Katzrockso (talk) 16:47, 13 April 2026 (UTC)

Continuation of discussion on Talk:Zionism ↗

This was the version I proposed in the last section.

{{tq|Zionism is an ethnocultural nationalist movement that emerged in late 19th-century Europe to establish and support a Jewish homeland through colonization in the region of Palestine, which roughly corresponds to the Land of Israel in Judaism—itself central to Jewish history. Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a secular nationalist movement in the late 19th century, in reaction to new waves of antisemitism and in response to the Haskalah, or Jewish Enlightenment. By the beginning of the 20th century, the Zionist movement, now led by Theodor Herzl, associated this national revival with Palestine, then under Ottoman rule. The arrival of Zionist settlers to Palestine during this period is widely seen as the start of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The Zionist claim to Palestine was based on the notion that the Jews' historical right to the land outweighed that of the Arabs. Zionists wanted to create a Jewish state in Palestine with as much land, as many Jews, and as few Palestinian Arabs as possible.}}

After this version, there are still a few things that could use tweaking.

{{tq|Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a secular nationalist movement in the late 19th century, in reaction to new waves of antisemitism and in response to the Haskalah, or Jewish Enlightenment. By the beginning of the 20th century, the Zionist movement, now led by Theodor Herzl, associated this national revival with Palestine, then under Ottoman rule.}}

To my knowledge, those who made Aliyah back in the 1880s (which is whom the first sentence was referring to) were more religious Jews. Herzl, however, was secular. Herzl died in 1904 and also entertained ideas like the Uganda Plan. I'm not entirely sure of a way to reflect these nuances in the lead without being over specific. EaglesFan37 (talk) 21:49, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

:@EaglesFan37 Let me know if you would like me to ping you for each reply or not.
:According to our article First Aliyah ↗, the first settlers were indeed fleeing antisemitism and not primarily religiously motivated. Katzrockso (talk) 23:37, 17 April 2026 (UTC)
::@Katzrockso Please ping me for each reply.
::Looking further into it, it looks like the Bilu ↗ were primarily secular, but Baruch Kimmerling argued that they were more religiously motivated than politically motivated. Proto-Zionism ↗ also seems to be a mix between religious and secular. I think was I thinking of Proto-Zionism ↗ when I said it was more religious.
::I'm not sure if the {{tq|"now lead Thodor Herzl"}} part of the lead is necessary. Herzl is considered to be the founder of Modern Zionism, and the lead doesn't indicate that there was another leader before him. Given that the article is primarily about Modern Zionism, I think just {{tq|led by Theodor Herzl}} would suffice. EaglesFan37 (talk) 00:27, 18 April 2026 (UTC)
:::@EaglesFan37 Hello again. I apologize for my delay in responding, I forgot about this conversation.
:::{{tq|Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a secular nationalist movement in the late 19th century}}. What would you propose changing this sentence to, if you think "emerged ... as a secular nationalist movement" is inaccurate. I do agree that it is a quite strict statement that is only (arguably) verified, by what I can tell, one of the sources cited; the Levine & Mossberg 2014 source;
:::{{bq|The parents of Zionism were not Judaism and tradition, but anti-Semitism and nationalism. The ideals of the French Revolution spread slowly across Europe, finally reaching the Pale of Settlement in the Russian Empire and helping to set off the Haskalah, or Jewish Enlightenment. This engendered a permanent split in the Jewish world, between those who held to a halachic or religious-centric vision of their identity and those who adopted in part the racial rhetoric of the time and made the Jewish people into a nation. This was helped along by the wave of pogroms in Eastern Europe that set two million Jews to flight; most wound up in America, but some chose Palestine. A driving force behind this was the Hovevei Zion movement, which worked from 1882 to develop a Hebrew identity that was distinct from Judaism as a religion}}
:::As for the Herzl thing, I'll have to look into it more. Katzrockso (talk) 00:02, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
::::@Katzrockso Under Herzl, Zionism was definitely secular. Before that, it's a bit more complicated. The Levine & Mossberg 2014 source mentions Hovevi Zion. Hovevi Zion was largely secular, but one of its leaders Samuel Mohilever ↗, was definitely not secular.
::::I'd probably support changing the sentence to {{tq|Zionism initially emerged in Central and Eastern Europe as a largely secular nationalist movement in the late 19th century.}}
::::However, the pre-Herzl migration might be considered as part of Proto-Zionism, which would make the point moot. EaglesFan37 (talk) 00:36, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::I guess the question is what do the sources say the distinction between Zionism and pre-Zionism is, when it emerged, and who is associated with which. @EaglesFan37 Katzrockso (talk) 00:56, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::@Katzrockso I think you're spot on with that. I likely won't have time to look into sources discussing that until the weekend. EaglesFan37 (talk) 01:18, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::::@EaglesFan37 No problem, I am also busier until this weekend. Katzrockso (talk) 01:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::::@Katzrockso
::::::::These are some sources that are worth analyzing:
::::::::https://www.jstor.org/stable/23258454?seq=2 ↗https://www.jstor.org/stable/25618681?searchText=proto-zionism&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3Dproto-zionism%26so%3Drel&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_gsv2%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3A62d30b3abe48d6a44bd61ce362a6ca10&seq=14 ↗https://www.jstor.org/stable/4283659?searchText=lovers+of+zion&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3Dlovers%2Bof%2Bzion%26so%3Drel&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_gsv2%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3Abc4765d0006c44d8f4ca1fd6e237f24c&seq=1 ↗https://www.jstor.org/stable/26375036?searchText=lovers+of+zion&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3Dlovers%2Bof%2Bzion%26so%3Drel&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_gsv2%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3Abc4765d0006c44d8f4ca1fd6e237f24c&seq=1 ↗https://www.jstor.org/stable/27564291?searchText=Herzl+proto-zionism&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3DHerzl%2Bproto-zionism%26so%3Drel&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_gsv2%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3A9b61b2647119b81c52ef3dc4997355d3 ↗https://www.jstor.org/stable/20100958?searchText=Herzl+proto-zionism&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3DHerzl%2Bproto-zionism%26so%3Drel&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_gsv2%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3A9b61b2647119b81c52ef3dc4997355d3 ↗https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv19x43d.28?searchText=proto-zionism+first+aliyah&searchUri=%2Faction%2FdoBasicSearch%3FQuery%3Dproto-zionism%2Bfirst%2Baliyah%26so%3Drel&ab_segments=0%2Fbasic_search_gsv2%2Fcontrol&refreqid=fastly-default%3A1bdf933106f319e6b1c0e6045123b631&seq=1 ↗.
::::::::I'm not sure when I'll have time to completely break these sources down this week (super busy this week, but I'll try to have this resolved by the end of the week. EaglesFan37 (talk) 02:38, 28 April 2026 (UTC)

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Notification of proposed decision

Hi Katzrockso, in the open ''Maghreb'' ↗ arbitration case, which you have commented on, a proposed decision has been posted ↗. You can review the proposed decision and draw the arbitrators' attention to any relevant material or statements. Comments may be brought to the attention of the committee on the proposed decision talk page ↗. For a guide to the proposed decision, see Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Party Guide/Proposed decision ↗. For the Arbitration Committee, EggRoll97 <sup>(talk ↗) </sup> 04:39, 21 April 2026 (UTC)

Matthew Sharpe

Per WP:ENCYCLOPEDIA.COM ↗, this ↗ is not reliable coverage of the subject, as encyclopedia.com is an aggregator. Did you find anything else? <span style="color:green">'''Ten Pound Hammer'''</span> (<small>they/them</small>) • <sup>(What did I screw up now?)</sup> 17:14, 26 April 2026 (UTC)

:@TenPoundHammer, what that states is that the reliability of the encyclopedia.com articles depends on the reliability of the original source that encyclopedia.com is aggregating. It appeared to be a CENGAGE publication, which is a reliable source. Katzrockso (talk) 17:16, 26 April 2026 (UTC)
::It's still only one source. I say stick to a rule of three ↗. Did you find anything else? <span style="color:green">'''Ten Pound Hammer'''</span> (<small>they/them</small>) • <sup>(What did I screw up now?)</sup> 17:21, 26 April 2026 (UTC)
:::WP:5P1 ↗ - we are an encyclopedia, but one covering all topics. Anything due for inclusion in one encyclopedia should be included on Wikipedia. I didn't search for more coverage yet, though I suspect it exists. The sources in the encyclopedia.com article suggest there is coverage. Katzrockso (talk) 17:26, 26 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Oh, I wasn't aware that this site was built on hoping and praying that there might possibly may be some sources somewhere, if only someone could reveal them to me. <span style="color:green">'''Ten Pound Hammer'''</span> (<small>they/them</small>) • <sup>(What did I screw up now?)</sup> 17:27, 26 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::As we all know, sources automatically add themselves to articles. That's why after 15 years this article is still one sentence long. Keep hoping and praying, and maybe someday it'll magically grow into an FA overnight. <span style="color:green">'''Ten Pound Hammer'''</span> (<small>they/them</small>) • <sup>(What did I screw up now?)</sup> 17:29, 26 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::If you object to existing PAG, please try to change them rather than pretend they don't exist. WP:IMPERFECT ↗ and WP:PRESERVE ↗ are policies and "being a stub" is not listed at WP:DEL-REASON ↗. Katzrockso (talk) 17:33, 26 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::PROD is only for uncontroversial deletions. I object to the deletion because I think that the encyclopedia.com article along with its sources (which you are more than able to check yourself) provide at least suggestive (if not dispositive) evidence of notability. If you disagree with WP:NEXIST ↗, I would suggest trying to have that section of the guideline removed. Katzrockso (talk) 17:30, 26 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::There is literally zero excuse for an article to ever be only one sentence long. If you find a source that you think is worthy of the article being kept, it's on ''you'' to put it in the damn article. No excuses. <span style="color:green">'''Ten Pound Hammer'''</span> (<small>they/them</small>) • <sup>(What did I screw up now?)</sup> 17:46, 26 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::::Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not compulsory ↗. Once again, if you disagree with existing policy, advocate to change it. For what it's worth, I am editing from my phone. I have trouble figuring out how to edit articles (other than removing text) in source mode. This is why WP:AGF ↗ exists. Katzrockso (talk) 18:10, 26 April 2026 (UTC)
::::::::My apologies, that got a little heated. I just get frustrated constantly with people saying "don't delete, I found a source" but never putting it in the article, especially an article that's been a microstub since the Stone Age. <span style="color:green">'''Ten Pound Hammer'''</span> (<small>they/them</small>) • <sup>(What did I screw up now?)</sup> 01:46, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

My understanding of your !vote

Did I represent your thoughts accurately here ↗? It came to my attention that I misrepresented VC's so I want to make sure that I understood you right <span style="color:#0072bc; font-family: 'Lemonada', 'Lateef', cursive; font-weight: 700; letter-spacing: 0.5px;">بادهای شمال</span> ❄️ (<span style="color:#FF69B4;">talk</span>) 23:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC)

:Hello @NorthernWinds, I replied to several of your comments on the Talk:Zionism ↗ page. I have no issue with your asking here, just thought I would reply to some other concerns and make my position more clearly in the discussion (:wikt:Kill two birds with one stone ↗). Let me know if there is any additional clarification you seek. Katzrockso (talk) 01:21, 7 May 2026 (UTC)
::Having issues again; would appreciate a clarification here ↗. Perhaps this is a good time to ask you to be more direct when engaging with me :p
::Also, given that we are already here, can you elaborate on what you said on my talk page? <span style="color:#0072bc;font-family:Playfair Display;font-variant:small-caps">Northern</span>''Winds'' ❄️ (<span style="color:#f6b">talk</span>) 23:10, 9 June 2026 (UTC)
:::When I was speaking of "harmoniz[ing]" and "minimiz[ing] unnecessary overlap", the implication (that I didn't make explicit there) was I supporting merging the entries back to other articles. I also stated that here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:List_of_Jews_in_the_southern_Levant#c-Katzrockso-20260527234500-NorthernWinds-20260527234400 ↗; {{tq|I would supporter [sic] selectively merging the entries from this list back to their appropriate articles}}
:::As for that comment, I have noticed that you tend to produce voluminous amounts of quotes that you purport support your preferred version of an article. Upon further inspection, most of these quotes are either out of context, don't support what you are using them for, or are from sources that are not WP:BESTSOURCES ↗. I would advise you to go along the lines of the WP:THREE ↗ advice that is aimed at WP:AFD ↗, but has applicability here too. Katzrockso (talk) 23:26, 9 June 2026 (UTC)
::::I disagree with you on most quotes not supporting me, and I am not aware of any other way to prove fringiness other than providing a large volume of sources. WP:THREE ↗ seems to apply for the notability of a subject, and for that I agree with it. I went over all of the quotes I provided in that discussion and they were all from scholars of relevant fields. A few may have slipped by but that tends to happen the more content you need to review. I'll try to limit myself to peer-reviewed sources next time. Thanks, <span style="color:#0072bc;font-family:Playfair Display;font-variant:small-caps">Northern</span>''Winds'' ❄️ (<span style="color:#f6b">talk</span>) 08:12, 10 June 2026 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Thank you

Thank you for warning me. I didn't know. I deleted your comment too, is it okay? --Moscow Connection (talk) 23:58, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

:That's fine. I appreciate you being willing to remove the comment. I believe the general understanding of WP:OUTING ↗ is that unless another website's profile is directly linked on someone's Wikipedia profile, it cannot be linked to a Wikipedia editor (i.e. assuming simply from the username is not permitted). Even in the case that someone shared information that might connection them to an identity or another website, this information can only be mentioned in particular circumstances;
:{{bq|A September 2019 RfC clarified that even if a user voluntarily posts their own personal information on a Wikimedia project that is not the English Wikipedia, it may still be outing under certain circumstances to re-post that information on the English Wikipedia.}}
:(from the footnote of WP:OUTING ↗).
:In general, Wikipedia doesn't typically take the off-Wikipedia activity of an editor into account unless it very clearly puts a black mark on their character or indicates violating Wikipedia policies (e.g. WP:COI ↗, WP:UPE ↗). Think about someone who might participate on white supremacist or Neo-Nazi forums; and in these cases, it is typically handled through private email reports to WP:ARBCOM ↗ or the Trust and Safety team.
:@Moscow Connection Katzrockso (talk) 00:04, 10 May 2026 (UTC)
:*Okay! Actually, there was no "personal profile", just other people mentioning the Wikipedia moniker. --Moscow Connection (talk) 00:07, 10 May 2026 (UTC)
:*:Sorry, I may have read too quickly through your post then. In that case, I just don't think that's pertinent at all - what people on other websites think about Wikipedia editors really doesn't have much to do with whether they merit sanctions here. I'm not saying that the other editor here is faultless - I really haven't read any of the diffs involved. Katzrockso (talk) 00:08, 10 May 2026 (UTC)
:*::Okay, still thank you very much! :-) Better be safe than sorry. I am not good at those serious discussions, so I should better stay out of that thread. ({{u|Jasper Deng}} is the first person who makes a good case on ANI concerning this matter.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 00:22, 10 May 2026 (UTC)
:*:::ANI can be a drag, I'll give you that. Katzrockso (talk) 00:24, 10 May 2026 (UTC)
:*:::There's a reason why I focused on Bgsu98's actions' impacts on ''Wikipedia editors''. You're still welcome to comment on the thread but should limit it to how it has impacted you and other editors. I echo the concerns over outing. Jasper Deng (talk) 00:51, 10 May 2026 (UTC)

Beverly Hills Teens characters

Below is the basic list of the characters. Just find reliable sources independent of the show itself. Otherwise, we have no basis for verifying that these are worth mentioning in an encyclopedia at all (for example, Vincent Terrace, ''Encyclopedia of Television Shows, 1925 Through 2010, 2d Ed., Volume 3 ↗'' (2014), p. 96).

'''Bianca Dupree''' - A scheming, raven-haired beauty who believes she comes first above all things.

'''Blaze Summers''' - A dark blonde cowgirl ↗ who could pass for Larke Tanner's sister, both in looks and in personality.

'''Buck Huckster''' - As his name implies, he is a slick ↗ shyster ↗ always looking to make a fast buck.

'''C.A.D.''' - (short for Computer Assistant Datemaker), a wisecracking, A.I. ↗ pocket computer ↗ used by Pierce Thorndyke III.

'''Chester McTech''' - A prodigy's prodigy ↗, Chester has skipped several grades to become a 10-year-old freshman ↗ and honor student ↗ at Beverly Hills High School.

'''Empress''' - Bianca Dupree's small pink poodle ↗, whose nasty bark is comparable to Bianca's attitude.

'''Fifi (full name unknown)''' - This hair-salon owner is the most sought-after stylist in Beverly Hills.

'''Thomas "Gig" Josephson''' - A brown-haired male rocker who plays alongside Jett.

'''Gig's guitar''' - a guitar ↗ played by Gig.

'''Jett Lyman'''{{Citation needed|date=June 2024}} - A blonde female rocker with extremely big hair and an exaggerated Valley girl ↗ accent.

'''Jillian Thorndyke''' - Pierce's annoying younger sister, who tries to be much more adult than she is.

'''Larke Tanner''' - The blonde-haired, blue-eyed teen queen of Beverly Hills.

'''McTech-Bot''' - Chester McTech's robot servant ↗.

'''Nikki Darling''' - An aspiring model ↗/actress ↗ with a very drama ↗tic demeanor ↗.

'''Pierce Thorndyke, Jr.''' - Pierce & Jillian's dad.

'''Pierce Thorndyke III''' - Pierce is egotistical, girl-crazy, snobbish, and blissfully unaware that he is not the Casanova ↗ which he believes himself to be.

'''Radley Coleman''' - A surfer dude who is fluent in the lingo ↗, and who has raised tanning ↗ to an art-form.

'''Shanelle Spencer''' - Intelligent and level-headed, with a wry sense of humor ↗, she is the voice of reason among her peers.

'''Stardust''' - Blaze's horse ↗ and companion in the stables.

'''Sunbeam''' - Blaze's white horse ↗.

'''Brenda "Switchboard" Andes'''{{Citation needed|date=June 2024}} - The self-dubbed "Guru of Gossip".

'''Tara Belle''' - She possesses a pronounced Deep Southern accent ↗ (at least once, she referred to "folks back home on the bayou ↗") and sports a more demure ↗ look than most of her peers.

'''Thunder''' - Blaze's black horse ↗.

'''Tiara''' - Larke Tanner's fluffy Persian cat ↗.

'''Troy Jeffries''' - A jock's jock, Troy is the most popular boy in Beverly Hills, for all the right reasons.

'''Twinkle''' - Blaze's light brown pony ↗.

'''Wilshire Brentwood''' - Bianca Dupree's chauffeur ↗ and doormat ↗.

''If'' these are properly sourced and restored as a section of the article on the show, then we can discuss restoring the list title as a redirect and perhaps restoring its underlying history. <span style="background:gold">'''''BD2412'''''</span> '''T''' 16:44, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

:@BD2412 That there exist reliable independent sources for specific elements of an article is not a ''requirement'' of any Wikipedia policy or guideline, otherwise we would simply ban primary non-independent sources altogether. That would be contrary to existing policy, practice and community consensus, as well as making WP:NIS ↗ moot.
: Some parts of an article should be included, whether or not any independent source comments on it (see WP:BALASP ↗; {{tq|In addition to describing why the subject is notable (e.g., "is an author", "biggest employer in the region"), encyclopedia articles should place the subject in context. For example, an article about a person should always indicate, at least in a general way, when and where they lived (e.g., "17th-century Spanish writer", "born c. 1907 in Japan"), and an article about a business should always indicate the nature of its business (e.g., "manufactures widgets", "shipping and logistics company").}}). For a TV show, this includes a plot summary and often a character description - this is precisely why we have MOS:PLOT ↗, which explicitly states {{tq|'''An article about a fictional work should include a plot summary. Character descriptions''' or direct quotations '''could also be helpful''' in some cases}} and MOS:FICTIONPLOT ↗ permits the use of the work itself to source information about the work. Indeed, MOS:FICTIONPLOT ↗ states {{tq|This content should not be included outside of the '''plot summary section or a section on characters of an article''', unless also covered in reliable secondary sources.}}, indicating that a section on "characters of an article" is acceptable for inclusion ''even if not covered in reliable secondary sources''. Katzrockso (talk) 17:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Sahil Bloom Page Delete

Hey I appreciate your comment to DrVulpes and asking him to restore my article on Sahil Bloom. I certainly agree with your comment ''"If there is a credible claim to significance ↗, which there most certainly is in this case, the page is not eligible for speedy deletion"'' but it appears like it got ignored and now the conversation is archived. Do you have any other suggestions for what I should do now? Any other things we could try? Pretty frustrating situation. JazzyOxygen (talk) 17:20, 17 May 2026 (UTC)

:I would bring up the concern again with the administrator on their talk page. If they don't agree to restore the article, then you'd bring the page to WP:DRV ↗. @JazzyOxygen
:I don't know if the subject is actually notable, and I suspect I'd vote to delete in an AfD, but out of process speedy deletions are not a good thing. Katzrockso (talk) 21:09, 17 May 2026 (UTC)

Arbitration Case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Michael Jackson ↗. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Michael Jackson/Evidence ↗. '''Please add your evidence by June 1, 2026 at 23:59 UTC, which is when the evidence phase closes.''' You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Michael Jackson/Workshop ↗. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Party Guide/Introduction ↗. For the Arbitration Committee, <span style="color:#C01933">'''~delta'''</span> <sub>{<span style="color:#003366">'''talk'''</span> • <span style="color:#003366">'''cont'''</span> ↗ • 🇰🇷 ↗ • 🎢 ↗}</sub> 22:19, 18 May 2026 (UTC)

Re 'magazine' history

Greetings; are you planning on doing any of the 'lifting' necessary to cite every claim in the section? It will require a lot of work. The other editor misrepresented what I stated in my edit summaries - this may illuminate the problem with employing a section banner: {{blue|please tag specific material being challenged. no idea if "earliest firearms" is being challenged, "lead ball in paper", "bulk or weight of a firearm", "mass produced", etc..}} This is why I balk at banners for citations. The claims in the section are largely unremarkable. Banner tagging illuminates nothing about what is challenged or challengeable. cheers, anastrophe, an editor he is. 05:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

:Tags aren't a stain on an article, they indicate a problem that needs to be fixed, eventually (but there is WP:NODEADLINE ↗). Katzrockso (talk) 05:18, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
::I never suggested they're a "stain" on the article, no idea where that's coming from. Do you have any reasonable challenges to the material, or is this just a punitive action? I'll ask again - do you plan to put any of your own effort into citing the section? It's easy to just banner an entire section, but it defers the work to others. cheers, anastrophe, an editor he is. 05:25, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

CS1 error on Earthquake light ↗

25px|alt=|link= ↗ Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have '''automatically detected''' that this edit ↗ performed by you, on the page :Earthquake light ↗, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

A dates ↗ error. References show this error when one of the date-containing parameters is incorrectly formatted. Please edit the article to correct the date and ensure it is formatted to follow the Wikipedia Manual of Style's guidance on dates ↗. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Earthquake_light&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1355157023%7CEarthquake%20light%5D%5D Ask for help])

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive ↗, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/Boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Katzrockso&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d={{FULLPAGENAMEE:Earthquake light}}&preloadparams%5b%5d=1355157023 report it to my operator].
Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 06:27, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

Hai Jawani Toh Ishq Hona Hai

More than enough reason ↗ was provided by at least two editors. It is SPI and UPE. Please do not move it again. CNMall41 (talk) 07:42, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

:That reason is false; it passes WP:NFF ↗. Do not move war, if the article was written by a sock it can be speedy deleted.
:@scope_creep please read WP:DRAFTNO ↗. Once an article has been moved back to mainspace, you cannot draftify it again. Please self revert. Katzrockso (talk) 07:50, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
::I am fully aware of what the guideline says. Now you have my attention as to why you want to force a SOCK creation that is likely UPE into the mainspace. This particular one has been done so approximately four times in the last month and now your conduct is supporting their efforts. --CNMall41 (talk) 07:54, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
:::If it is a sock creation, then it should be deleted by WP:G5 ↗. Wait for the SPI to conclude and request its deletion then.
:::The subject is notable and there are no issues that require draftification, which is why I objected to draftification. Perhaps if editors used more explanatory edit summaries, we wouldnt be in this scenario. I still object to the edit warring. Katzrockso (talk) 08:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
:::If you are insinuating that I am part of that sock farm, feel free to add me to the SPI investigation. @CNMall41 Katzrockso (talk) 08:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
::::Can you move this article to main space. Added some more contents and sources. It is releasing within 2 weeks in theatres. ~2026-30294-02 ↗ (talk) 09:04, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::Hello, I won't be continuing a move war or assisting a sock farm. Please stop use sockpuppets and appeal your block on your initial account after 6 months @~2026-30294-02. Katzrockso (talk) 09:12, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::I'm not anyone's sock. This movie is releasing in 2 weeks and it have sufficient hype. So expanding it. When many internet users search for this movie in wikipedia, they can't see it or will show deleted, deleted, deleted. That's reason why I asked to move it. ~2026-30294-02 ↗ (talk) 09:20, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
::::{{tq|"If it is a sock creation, then it should be deleted by G5"}} - I agree. There is no deadline in Wikipedia and the SPI case (which is WP:DUCK ↗ is pending) and I am not about to push a CU. In the meantime, it would help if you read edit history and deletion history of pages so as not to assist the bludgeoning. Of course, do as you will. Just giving a heads up. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:11, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

May 2026

25px|alt=Information icon ↗ Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions ↗, such as the edit(s) you made to :Arijit Roy ↗, did not appear to be constructive and have been reverted ↗. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines ↗. You can find information about these at our welcome page ↗ which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia ↗. If you only meant to make test edits, please use your sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page ↗. ''Moving unsourced WP:BLP ↗ from draft to mainspace.'' '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus"><span style="color:#3399ff">scope_creep</span><sup>Talk</sup></span>''' 07:48, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

:@Scope creep please refrain from passive aggressive templates on my talk page. The article is not unsourced and falsely claiming an article is unsourced to move it to draftspace is disruptive. Katzrockso (talk) 07:52, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
::{{ping|Katzrockso}} I had to remove the previous message that I left on your talk page, because it sent me into an absolute rage. Your moving crap and dodgy articles back to article-space that have been legitimately reviewed by other WP:NPP ↗ reviwers that have real problems. That film article A minute ago you moved back an unsourced WP:BLP ↗ back to articlespace. I wouldn't do any more. Your not a reviewer and you don't know what your doing. Moving unsourced and promo content back into article space is a sure way to be shown the out door. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus"><span style="color:#3399ff">scope_creep</span><sup>Talk</sup></span>''' 08:01, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
:::@Scope creep Draft:Arijit Roy ↗ is '''not''' unsourced. Perhaps you should read WP:BLPPROD ↗, where it becomes clear that unsourced means {{tq|'''no sources in any form which support any statements made about the person.'''}} Undersourced and unsourced do not mean the same thing.
:::Please revert your disruptive re-draftifications against existing policy; it is considered edit warring. Katzrockso (talk) 08:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
::::That article you added is an interview with that paper, which is WP:PRIMARY ↗, which can't be used to establish notability. Keep at it. I'm sure will be blocked before months end. I wouldn't move that out of draft as it will be another unsourced WP:BLP ↗ and it will be visit to ANI for a warning. This is the last comment I will be leaving. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus"><span style="color:#3399ff">scope_creep</span><sup>Talk</sup></span>''' 08:13, 20 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::I understand that the source is WP:PRIMARY ↗. You ''falsely'' stated that the article was unsourced, and now when called out on the fact that the subject is NOT unsourced (as falsely claimed both in your edit summary, re-draftification and talk page comment here), you shift to a different justification for draftification, while somehow still maintaining the claim that the article is unsourced.
:::::A primary source does not make something UNSOURCED. Unsourced means no sources, zilch, zero. Not "zero sources that I personally like", "zero sources that I personally think establish notability". Katzrockso (talk) 08:16, 20 May 2026 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

left|150px ↗
In light of recent events. You are very much appreciated.

PARAKANYAA (talk) 06:59, 22 May 2026 (UTC)
<br style="clear: both;"/>

Jordan Lasker

Regarding this ↗ edit, we cannot have contentious unsourced claims in the lead of a BLP. I understand that you don't agree with edits that have been made to the page by others, but it is not ok to reimpose your own view in contravention of the BLP policy, in a contentious topic to boot. Please self-revert immediately, or I'll be taking this to AE. Riposte97 (talk) 13:17, 22 May 2026 (UTC)

:It's not unsourced. The source is in the next sentence. I moved it directly next to the claim in Special:Diff/1355619938 ↗, so helpfully that helps. @Riposte97.
:Removing the word genetic fundamentally contradicts what just about every source says about the subject. Katzrockso (talk) 23:20, 22 May 2026 (UTC)
::Your source fails verification. Thankfully, the wording has now been updated. Riposte97 (talk) 09:07, 23 May 2026 (UTC)
:::How did it fail verification? @Riposte97 Katzrockso (talk) 13:12, 23 May 2026 (UTC)
::::It does not stand for the proposition you assert. That is extremely poor form, though I don't propose to take this any further unless you keep pressing the point. Riposte97 (talk) 05:39, 24 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::Yes, it does.
:::::https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2025/07/cremieux-race-science-new-york-times/683474 ↗ citation.
:::::{{tq| The same year, Lasker published a roughly 8,000-word blog post on race and IQ. '''“While there is plenty of evidence for genetic involvement in the racial differences,” he wrote, “the evidence for systematic environmental effects between races is absent and, in most cases (e.g., discrimination, stereotype threat, a history of slavery), impossible as an explanation.”'''}}}}
:::::Claim in the article {{tq|researcher who argues for a genetic relationship between race and intelligence ↗}}.
:::::This verifies the claim in the article.
:::::I don't even understand why you are even disputing this - not even Lasker would dispute that he argues for a genetic relationship between race and intelligence - he manifestly does and that is a major part of his POV. Katzrockso (talk) 11:14, 24 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::@Riposte97 Katzrockso (talk) 12:46, 24 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::::It does not state what you claim in article voice. Instead, the article quotes Lasker in such a way as a proof or disproof of the proposition cannot be concluded. As you'd be aware, acknowledging evidence for a proposition != advocacy of that position. Contrary to your other point, Lasker has repeatedly disclaimed holding the view that you so confidently attribute to him. As someone who archly refers others to the literature in this field (as you do below), I would have thought your own methodological grounding would be stronger. Riposte97 (talk) 01:28, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::::Given that Lasker for many years openly denied that he operated the Cremieux account, he cannot be considered a reliable narrator whatsoever. What he denies and doesn't deny should be given no WEIGHT given that he is not even reliable in an ABOUTSELF manner and this is clearly a self-serving claim.
::::::::@Selbstporträt posted a number of quotes on the talk page that explicitly support the fact that he advocates (which in this sense is a type of ''academic'' or ''intellectual'' advocacy, that is to support a theory/hypothesis) a genetic explanation of the racial IQ gap.
::::::::And I'm sorry, {{tq|acknowledging evidence for a proposition <nowiki>!=</nowiki> advocacy of that position}} parodies itself.
::::::::I have no clue what your comment on methodological grounding means.
::::::::@Riposte97 Katzrockso (talk) 01:35, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::If you can find a single RS which backs you up, please comment it at the Lasker talk page. I will respond there from now on. Riposte97 (talk) 01:38, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::That's not true. Lasker said multiple times on the talk page that he doesn't believe that there is a "genetic relationship between race and intelligence". You're paraphrasing his words out of context so much that your paraphrase loses factual accuracy. Lasker believes that race does not determine intelligence. A white person can be dumb or smart. A black person can be dumb or smart. Lasker understands this, hence why he rejects your proposed wording "genetic relationship between race and intelligence". There's no logical basis for the wording that you want to use, and there are no quotes to support it either (including the one that you gave). Zero Contradictions (talk) 14:37, 24 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::::If he believes that (1) IQ is genetically determined, (2) race is genetically determined, and (3) there's a correlation between race and IQ, then logically, he believes that (4) there's a genetic relationship between IQ and race. Does he not believe one or more of 1, 2 or 3? Or do you disagree that 4 is a logical consequent of the combination of 1, 2 and 3? He says he disagrees that "the differences between Blacks and Whites on average IQ are environmental." Would he disagree that "the differences between Blacks and Whites on average IQ are genetic"? FactOrOpinion (talk) 00:34, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::::Actually, that's not true about your conclusion from 1, 2 and 3 (see Lewontin's famous thought experiment).
::::::::But he clearly does advocate for there being a genetic relationship between race and IQ - he openly supports the hereditarian theory of IQ differences. I don't know why we should take his word here as anything but a self serving twisting of reality Katzrockso (talk) 00:36, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::Thanks, I wasn't familiar with Lewontin's thought experiment (this is not an area in which I'm well-read). The thing is, in the same blog post you referenced above, Lasker writes things like "What environmental influences are 'more than enough' to account for the Black-White IQ gap? At present, there are not any known influences capable of doing this, nor is it particularly plausible that the gaps in the unshared environment (which must be systematic by race but not sibship and thus exist in a way inconsistent with familial environmental transmission) are large enough to explain the race gaps. ... Drum does not appear to have a legitimate reason to think the Black-White gap is environmental." So my question above should have included this additional belief. FactOrOpinion (talk) 02:16, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::::::Yes, he is raising a common objection to Lewontin's thought experiment. If I recall correctly, it was first advanced by Arthur Jensen ↗ back in the 1980s and has been taken up in recent years most notably by Marc Dalliard (see https://openpsych.net/paper/27/ ↗ for an example; https://humanvarieties.org/2014/08/25/the-elusive-x-factor-or-why-jonathan-kaplan-is-wrong-about-race-and-iq/ ↗ for the blog version). See also Heritability of IQ#Between-group heritability ↗ and citations there for more relevant literature. Katzrockso (talk) 02:22, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::::Race can predict a person's IQ within a confidence interval, but race cannot determine intelligence. Like I said before, a white person can be dumb or smart. A black person can be dumb or smart. Race can be used to ''predict'' whether some people have higher IQs than others. But race does not ''determine'' that some people have higher IQs than others.
::::::::For the record, IQ does not measure intelligence, precisely because it is impossible to directly measure intelligence. IQ is a proxy for intelligence.
::::::::Race can predict a person's genetic traits within confidence intervals, but race cannot determine genetic traits. For example, race can ''predict'' that a random European person will ''most likely'' have brown hair. But race cannot ''determine'' that a European person will have brown hair. A European person could have blonde, red, brown, black, or gray hair, or even no hair at all ↗.
::::::::So I stand by what I said. It's not accurate to say that there is a "genetic relationship between IQ and race". That suggests some sort of causal relationship where race determines IQ. But as I've clarified, race cannot and does not determine IQ nor genetics nor traits. Race can predict the probability(ies) of each of those, but it cannot determine any of them. Zero Contradictions (talk) 11:54, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::"That suggests some sort of causal relationship where race determines IQ". No, it doesn't. Katzrockso (talk) 13:29, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::::::Yes, it can. The problem with that wording is that it's too unnecessarily vague to unambiguously describe what Jordan Lasker believes. That's why I oppose the wording. I don't see any reason why ''that'' wording should be included in the article when there are more precise ways to describe Lasker's beliefs instead. Zero Contradictions (talk) 07:49, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::::Can you provide another phrasing that conveys the point that he believes in the biological fixity of the 'racial IQ gap'? Katzrockso (talk) 18:57, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::::::::I liked the phrasing that the article had before you changed it. The phrasings used in the Race FAQs on my website also convey the ideas and beliefs correctly and specifically. I'm not going to write them out here because I already did (in the FAQs), I'm tired, and I don't think this discussion is going to go anywhere. Zero Contradictions (talk) 07:49, 28 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::A claim that there's a genetic relationship between race and IQ does not imply causality at an individual level. For example, there is a genetic relationship between eye color and hair color, but eye color doesn't determine hair color at an individual level (see, e.g., 1 ↗) "That suggests some sort of causal relationship where race determines IQ." As Katzrockso said, no, it doesn't. And I'm not going to get into a debate about whether race is genetic (it isn't), as that's off topic; the topic is whether Lasker has made statements that support a relationship between race and IQ. FactOrOpinion (talk) 13:44, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::::::As I replied to Katzrockso, yes, it can. If there was a causal relationship between race and IQ, then that would indeed be a "genetic relationship between race and IQ". A lot of people assume that race realists believe there is a causal relationship between race and IQ, so I am justified to reject Katzrockso's phrasing, since it conveys the wrong beliefs in a lot of people's minds. Race realism should not be confused with race idealism, as I defined the terms in the Race FAQs on my website, or as Lasker would define them.
::::::::::You may believe that race has no genetic basis, but you previously said that you're not well-read on stuff like race, IQ, and hereditarianism. So you clearly don't know what you're talking about. The bottom line is that there are better and more specific ways to talk about and correctly describe race and IQ (and Lasker's beliefs). I am done with this tiring discussion. Zero Contradictions (talk) 08:00, 28 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::::That A implies B ("If there was a causal relationship between race and IQ, then that would indeed be a genetic relationship between race and IQ'.") does not mean that ~A implies ~B ("If there were no causal relationship between race and IQ, then that would be no 'genetic relationship between race and IQ'.") This is basic logic, see Material conditional ↗. I already gave you an example of research showing a genetic relationship without genetic causaiity. And I do know enough to know that race isn't genetic. As a simple example, I know that your Race FAQ shows that you don't know the biological definition of subspecies or understand why biological taxonomists do not consider different races to be subspecies of H. sapiens (our species has no subspecies). FactOrOpinion (talk) 12:27, 28 May 2026 (UTC)
:::::::Also, the idea that a genetic relationship between race and IQ entails that a black person can't be smart or a white person can't be dumb is a profound misunderstanding of just any number of things in this topic area. I'd recommend reading anything Rushton, Jensen, Lynn wrote to see what the argument of racial hereditarians is. You'll quickly note that Lasker is simply continuing this argument. Katzrockso (talk) 01:02, 25 May 2026 (UTC)
::::::::That's not what I said. Zero Contradictions (talk) 11:54, 25 May 2026 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Wikipedia:Move review/Log/2026 May#Persecution of transgender people under the second Trump administration ↗

Hi, there is a move review underway relevant to a discussion you were recently involved in. Link above. (I know you are aware, but for completeness). Thanks. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:57, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

Just wanted to express thanks

At your successful deescalating efforts at the dispute about the land of the Deer. I appreciate how you stuck to discussing the content in light of policies and guidelines and found a creative solution to move the page back into a workshopping area where its name and scope can be discussed without pressure to either the creator or those confused by it. Tiamut (talk) 18:30, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

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Race and intelligence CTOP alert

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'''Help is available:''' check out Wikipedia:Questions ↗,
ask me on my talk page ↗, or {{edit|Special:MyTalk|ask for help on your talk page|section=new|preload=Help:Contents/helpmepreload|preloadtitle=Help me!}}, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome!  Historyexpert2 (talk) 22:26, 7 June 2026 (UTC)

:@Historyexpert2 what was the point of this? I'm not a new editor. Katzrockso (talk) 22:48, 7 June 2026 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

48px|left|alt=|link= ↗Your feedback is requested  at '''Talk:Mohammed Deif'''  on a "History and geography" request for comment ↗. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service ↗ subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name ↗.</small> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> <small>(replacing <span class="plainlinks">Yapperbot ↗</span>)</small> SodiumBot (botop|talk ↗|contribs ↗) 20:31, 8 June 2026 (UTC)

List of schools in Bardhaman ↗ moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to List of schools in Bardhaman ↗. Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing as a live article at this time because '''it needs more sources to establish notability'''.
I have converted it to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page ↗.
When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit the draft for review!" button at the top of the page OR move the page back. <span style="font-family:times new roman"><span style="background-color:purple; color: #7FFFD4">~ŤheŴubṂachine</span>-<span style="color:#339966">840</span><span style="color:red">≈</span></span> ● <small>'''<span style="color:#339966;font-family:times new roman">✒️</span> ↗'''</small> 20:59, 11 June 2026 (UTC)

:It's a navigational list. Katzrockso (talk) 21:49, 11 June 2026 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

48px|left|alt=|link= ↗Your feedback is requested  at '''Talk:Doctor Who'''  on a "All RFCs" request for comment ↗. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service ↗ subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name ↗.</small> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> <small>(replacing <span class="plainlinks">Yapperbot ↗</span>)</small> SodiumBot (botop|talk ↗|contribs ↗) 06:31, 12 June 2026 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

{| style="background-color: var(--background-color-success-subtle, #fdffe7); border: 1px solid var(--border-color-success, #fceb92); color: var(--color-base, #202122);"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | 100px ↗
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Editor's Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For your good work in AFDs, and for watching out ↗ for me too. <span style="color:green">'''Ten Pound Hammer'''</span> (<small>they/them</small>) • <sup>(What did I screw up now?)</sup> 15:37, 12 June 2026 (UTC)
|}

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

48px|left|alt=|link= ↗Your feedback is requested  at '''Talk:Numidia'''  on a "All RFCs" request for comment ↗. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service ↗ subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name ↗.</small> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> <small>(replacing <span class="plainlinks">Yapperbot ↗</span>)</small> SodiumBot (botop|talk ↗|contribs ↗) 20:30, 16 June 2026 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Michael Jackson ↗ closed

An arbitration case, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Michael Jackson ↗, has been now closed. The final decision is available at the link above.

The following remedies have been passed regarding this case:

{{user|TruthGuardians}}, {{user|TheWikiholic}}, {{user|Guitarjunkie22}}, {{user|Jimcastor}}, and {{user|MraClean}} are indefinitely banned from Wikipedia. This ban may be appealed six months after the enactment of this remedy, and every six months thereafter.

{{user|TruthGuardians}}, {{user|TheWikiholic}}, {{user|Israell}}, {{user|Episteme Aletheia}}, {{user|Guitarjunkie22}}, {{user|Jimcastor}}, {{user|Mr Boar1}}, {{user|MraClean}}, {{user|Never17}}, and {{user|PinkSlippers}} are indefinitely topic banned from Michael Jackson ↗, broadly construed. This restriction may be appealed six months after the enactment of this remedy, and every six months thereafter.

{{user|NE0mAn7o!}} is warned that future misconduct in the Michael Jackson ↗ topic area will result in restrictions under the Michael Jackson community contentious topic ↗.

For the Arbitration Committee, <span style="color:#C01933">'''~delta'''</span> <sub>{<span style="color:#003366">'''talk'''</span> • <span style="color:#003366">'''cont'''</span> ↗ • 🇰🇷 ↗ • 🎢 ↗}</sub> 21:16, 22 June 2026 (UTC)

: Discuss this at: '''{{slink|Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard|Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Michael Jackson closed}}'''

Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

48px|left|alt=|link= ↗Your feedback is requested  at '''Talk:Magazine (firearms)'''  on a "Society, sports, and culture" request for comment ↗. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service ↗ subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name ↗.</small> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> SodiumBot (botop|talk ↗|contribs ↗) 00:30, 3 July 2026 (UTC)

Feedback request: Society, sports, and culture request for comment

48px|left|alt=|link= ↗Your feedback is requested  at '''Talk:World Athletics Championships'''  on a "Society, sports, and culture" request for comment ↗. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service ↗ subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name ↗.</small> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> SodiumBot (botop|talk ↗|contribs ↗) 05:30, 7 July 2026 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

48px|left|alt=|link= ↗Your feedback is requested  at '''Talk:Antioch International Movement of Churches'''  on a "All RFCs" request for comment ↗. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of Feedback Request Service ↗ subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by removing your name ↗.</small> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> SodiumBot (botop|talk ↗|contribs ↗) 01:32, 9 July 2026 (UTC)